Encryption

[jasonl]

What possible reason would they have for dragging it out? It's in the best interests of everyone to have a clear path going forward. Hopefully one without DRM. It just takes time to get there because there are so many things that have to be decided and there was so much more involvement from people than there normally is on FCC proceedings.

[cncb]

What possible reason would they have for dragging it out?

Money and appeasing big corporations?

[jasonl]

Which big corporations? Most of the big corporations involved are the big broadcasters and they want an immediate mandate for ATSC 3.0 tuners in TVs, a mandatory transition as soon as it is feasible, and the ability to DRM everything. Other big ones are the cable and satellite providers, and they mostly don't care other than the broadcasters should have to pay for everything to maintain their status quo. TV makers mostly don't want a mandate, and having that confirmed sooner rather than later is better.

[jco23]

so my understanding as to why the HDHomerun devices are NOT unencrypting the DRM signals is because PearlTV/ASCA is NOT approving them, claiming that there is a chip in the devices made outside of the US?

don't the other "approved" devices have foreign parts/chips too?

If true, then this seems like a petty dispute - there has to be an underlying reason.

I get that the goal is completely do away with DRM, but what will it take to get PearlTV/ASCA to approve HDHomerun devices?

[nickk]

so my understanding as to why the HDHomerun devices are NOT unencrypting the DRM signals is because PearlTV/ASCA is NOT approving them, claiming that there is a chip in the devices made outside of the US?

No, that claim was a made up story.

The HDHomeRun actually doesn't touch the encryption - it is a requirement that the encryption not be removed so it stays encrypted across your home network to your player devices.

It is the player devices that need to do the decryption. The A3SA does not have a solution for all the player devices we support (even though these player devices support Netflix).

There is now one more complication - TV needs to also work offline, and DRM generally requires the internet to work. The exception is where A3SA keys are factory programmed into the player device, and obviously no player devices have these keys except specially made ATSC 3.0 boxes.

[geriakt]

It is the player devices that need to do the decryption. The A3SA does not have a solution for all the player devices we support (even though these player devices support Netflix).

There is now one more complication - TV needs to also work offline, and DRM generally requires the internet to work. The exception is where A3SA keys are factory programmed into the player device, and obviously no player devices have these keys except specially made ATSC 3.0 boxes.

Just looking for clarification on this DRM encryption.
You are stating the client app needs to do the decryption, but my understanding is only Android device have the ability to decrypt because of Widevine L1? So a Roku, Apple tv, Windows or Linux cant decrypt? If so how does an LG or Samsung decrypt with a built-in ATSC 3.0 turner?
Can it be possible to have a client device request a decryption key if the HDHOMERUN Flex 4k is used as a turner for ATSC 3.0 DRM in the future for all clients or even just Android Widevine L1?
I have just moved back to using the HDHOMERUN Flex 4k for non DRM programming. I found the lower cost GTMEDIA X1 and **** boxes fall short of any good experience just to watch and record OTA TV.

[jasonl]

The rules for DRM when accessing a broadcast through a gateway device like an HDHomeRun are completely different than the rules for DRM when using a TV or set-top box. This makes some sense, as sending data over the network means someone could send it over the internet, and if one goal is to prevent remote viewing, then the system needs controls in place to make sure that the gateway and the player are near each other. This is a significant departure from how DRM works on a streaming service, where the location check is handled by a completely different system and is much less stringent, generally just relying on the perceived location of the IP address you are connecting from being in whatever region is considered acceptable. Streaming services also tend to use an encryption format that allows the same encrypted files to be used with all 3 major DRM systems (Widevine, PlayReady, and FairPlay), which you can read about at https://www.forasoft.com/learn/video-st ... ption-cenc if you want to learn more, although it gets pretty deep into the tech. Note that the company does sell a product that does all that stuff, and I have no ties to them and this is not an endorsement, I just found it in a search and thought it was worth the read to get an idea of how the big streaming services do it. A3SA's DRM system specifies Widevine as the supported system, so that eliminates anything that doesn't support Widevine, including the entire Apple ecosystem.

[geriakt]

I guess I need to simplify my question (for me to better comprehend). Is there currently a way or a future planned way to to allow the Flex 4k to decrypt Atsc3 DRM if approved by the AS3A? If so what will additional equipment needed and how will it work?

Hopefully the FCC will outlaw DRM, but until that time how will the Flex 4k be forced to comply? Clearly in the current form it is possible to record a non encrypted .ts file and transfer it outside of the home network with some additional technology like a tunneling VPN ( with the HD app) or even as simple as using JellyFin and opening a port in your router. Of course there is nothing illegal in doing this.
I have even done this with my AS3A approved GTMEDIA X1 by locating the hidden record file folder in the android system and moving the file to a different SD card and physically moving to a different X1 device on a different network. Of course the encrypted file remains encrypted, but it allows a different mac address to play it anywhere I choose. I don't know what the segmented encrypted file is called, but I assume there is software out there to rejoin it into a standard.ts file since I was able to email these files to GTMEDIA to view them to investigate play back issues.
I am not looking to rebroadcast my ATSC 3.0 tv to the public, but I want to watch throughout my house without buying additional equipment and I also want to privately view it when I travel in my RV for months.

[grueber]

What possible reason would they have for dragging it out? It's in the best interests of everyone to have a clear path going forward. Hopefully one without DRM. It just takes time to get there because there are so many things that have to be decided and there was so much more involvement from people than there normally is on FCC proceedings.

Many of the local broadcasting stations have been bought out by a few large corporations. The top 3 (Nexstar, Gray, Sinclair) own almost half of all US stations. Their market share lets them charge lucrative retransmission fees to the streaming providers (YTTV, Hulu Live, Direct TV, etc). These fees have grown in size over the last two decades and now make up >50% of their annual revenue.

These companies have become addicted to the fees. The more people who give up OTA and sign up for $80/month streaming TV the more they get paid. They just need the pretense of OTA being "available" to the general population.

[zippy]

For the full year 2025, Nexstar Media Group reported a net profit (net income) of approximately $83 million to $109 million on total net revenue of $4.949 billion, reflecting a year-over-year decline driven by lower political advertising compared to the 2024 presidential election cycle

Net Revenue: $4.949 billion (down 8.5% year-over-year from $5.407 billion in 2024)

Net Income (Profit): ~$83 million to $109 million (compared to $722 million in 2024)Q4 2025

Revenue: $1.29 billion (down 13.4% year-over-year) with a Q4 net loss of $166 million–$170 million due to an off-cycle political advertising drop

[jasonl]

I guess I need to simplify my question (for me to better comprehend). Is there currently a way or a future planned way to to allow the Flex 4k to decrypt Atsc3 DRM if approved by the AS3A? If so what will additional equipment needed and how will it work?

Hopefully the FCC will outlaw DRM, but until that time how will the Flex 4k be forced to comply? Clearly in the current form it is possible to record a non encrypted .ts file and transfer it outside of the home network with some additional technology like a tunneling VPN ( with the HD app) or even as simple as using JellyFin and opening a port in your router. Of course there is nothing illegal in doing this.
I have even done this with my AS3A approved GTMEDIA X1 by locating the hidden record file folder in the android system and moving the file to a different SD card and physically moving to a different X1 device on a different network. Of course the encrypted file remains encrypted, but it allows a different mac address to play it anywhere I choose. I don't know what the segmented encrypted file is called, but I assume there is software out there to rejoin it into a standard.ts file since I was able to email these files to GTMEDIA to view them to investigate play back issues.
I am not looking to rebroadcast my ATSC 3.0 tv to the public, but I want to watch throughout my house without buying additional equipment and I also want to privately view it when I travel in my RV for months.

The HDHomeRun would not do the decryption, the decryption would be done by the device you are watching on controlled by the HDHomeRun app, similar to how Netflix and other streaming apps work. Part of the DRM system is built into the CPU of the device so that the decryption can be done 'securely' to prevent someone from just running an app that could grab the decrypted content and output it to a file. This means that the device itself has to fully support the DRM system including all the various bits that A3SA uses that may not be used in streaming video, and that can eliminate some platforms that nominally support Widevine.

[jasonl]

Many of the local broadcasting stations have been bought out by a few large corporations. The top 3 (Nexstar, Gray, Sinclair) own almost half of all US stations. Their market share lets them charge lucrative retransmission fees to the streaming providers (YTTV, Hulu Live, Direct TV, etc). These fees have grown in size over the last two decades and now make up >50% of their annual revenue.

These companies have become addicted to the fees. The more people who give up OTA and sign up for $80/month streaming TV the more they get paid. They just need the pretense of OTA being "available" to the general population.

You're almost there. What happens if the FCC implements a tuner mandate like the one for ATSC 1.0 (where if you included an NTSC tuner you had to include an ATSC tuner) starting in 2028 and a forced transition to ATSC 3.0 in 2033? Almost every pre-2028 TV's tuner soon becomes obsolete, many manufacturers decide the increased cost of adding a 3.0 tuner isn't worth it and start selling "smart displays" instead, which would TVs without a tuner and just having their smart system for streaming. Many people who would have been happy watching ATSC 1.0 now have to go out and buy a box of some sort to get 3.0 or just pay for streaming.

[zippy]

Can a current television manufacturer call their new tunerless device a television.

Television Sets

Must include a built-in digital (ATSC) tuner if manufactured after March 2007.

Subject to federal mandates under the Federal Communications Commission regarding accessibility, such as physical or on-screen controls for closed captioning and audio descriptions.

Required to incorporate V-Chip technology for parental control of video programming.

[bandit5731]

Can a current television manufacturer call their new tunerless device a television.

Television Sets

Must include a built-in digital (ATSC) tuner if manufactured after March 2007.

Subject to federal mandates under the Federal Communications Commission regarding accessibility, such as physical or on-screen controls for closed captioning and audio descriptions.

Required to incorporate V-Chip technology for parental control of video programming.

no its called a monitor

[geriakt]

I guess I need to simplify my question (for me to better comprehend). Is there currently a way or a future planned way to to allow the Flex 4k to decrypt Atsc3 DRM if approved by the AS3A? If so what will additional equipment needed and how will it work?

Hopefully the FCC will outlaw DRM, but until that time how will the Flex 4k be forced to comply? Clearly in the current form it is possible to record a non encrypted .ts file and transfer it outside of the home network with some additional technology like a tunneling VPN ( with the HD app) or even as simple as using JellyFin and opening a port in your router. Of course there is nothing illegal in doing this.
I have even done this with my AS3A approved GTMEDIA X1 by locating the hidden record file folder in the android system and moving the file to a different SD card and physically moving to a different X1 device on a different network. Of course the encrypted file remains encrypted, but it allows a different mac address to play it anywhere I choose. I don't know what the segmented encrypted file is called, but I assume there is software out there to rejoin it into a standard.ts file since I was able to email these files to GTMEDIA to view them to investigate play back issues.
I am not looking to rebroadcast my ATSC 3.0 tv to the public, but I want to watch throughout my house without buying additional equipment and I also want to privately view it when I travel in my RV for months.

The HDHomeRun would not do the decryption, the decryption would be done by the device you are watching on controlled by the HDHomeRun app, similar to how Netflix and other streaming apps work. Part of the DRM system is built into the CPU of the device so that the decryption can be done 'securely' to prevent someone from just running an app that could grab the decrypted content and output it to a file. This means that the device itself has to fully support the DRM system including all the various bits that A3SA uses that may not be used in streaming video, and that can eliminate some platforms that nominally support Widevine.

So using the HDHOMERUN Flex 4K with a device like the current Walmart ONN pro 4k (v2) or Google TV Streamer equipped with the Amlogic S995X5 SoC (CPU) should be capable decrypting DRM because both have Widevine L1 and can play back having the Hevc and Dolby AC4 codecs, but the A3SA would have to pre approve these two devices first? Correct?

I assume for this to work the A3SA would have to send a decryption key via an internet connection first before decryption could begin requiring time to tune in the channel? This would not allow emergency system broadcast now would it?

Say if this would work, but requires an internet connection to watch OTA TV, why not just stream the channel instead of using an antenna? I assume then the network would just charge a fee to stream it an eliminate the turner.

Does the A3SA require ATSC 3.0 DRM recordings be saved as a DASH TS?

Ok DRM does not work and will never work with A3SA required Keys. The FCC should never approve a mandated switch to ATSC 3.0 and just stick to ATSC 1.0.