When support for ATSC 3.0 DRM will be available?

[Jaylaw]

If all channels are encrypted why the company keeps telling the $199 device supports it (ATSC 3.0, most channels are encrypted nowadays). People buy device with the ATSC 3.0 support thinking they can watch the channels, but channels are not viewable? Seems misleading to me. Is there going to be any support on the current hardware or we have to wait and buy another device? Right now is better to buy the ATSC 1.0 version and you save $50. Unless the encryption issue is resolved with the products (the box is connected to the internet, so if that is a requirement is there)

[nickk]

We are very clear on our website and on Amazon that DRM channels are not supported.

With that said, the HDHomeRun hardware has little to do with DRM as its job is to stream the DRM encrypted video to the app.
The decryption and playback is handled by the player device with app assistance.

In our opinion A3SA is trying to make supporting DRM as difficult as possible. As A3SA rules stand today DRM cannot be supported on any Apple product (Mac, iPhone, iPad, or Apple TV), cannot be supported on any Microsoft product (Windows or XBox), cannot be supported on any web based television (Samsung or LG) even if ATSC 3.0 certified, and we are pretty sure cannot be supported on Roku.

[gtb]

In our opinion A3SA is trying to make supporting DRM as difficult as possible. As A3SA rules stand today DRM cannot be supported on any Apple product (Mac, iPhone, iPad, or Apple TV), cannot be supported on any Microsoft product (Windows or XBox), cannot be supported on any web based television (Samsung or LG) even if ATSC 3.0 certified, and we are pretty sure cannot be supported on Roku.

Let's, for the moment, assume A3SA continues to insist on their documented end-to-end fully protected content path (which, to this point, they seem to be choosing to do, and for which alternative vendors have chosen to accommodate; even the public documents specified a clear potential recording/playback path with an A3SA approved solution set). That is clearly in conflict with SD's current desired solution path. So, does SD plan to offer an Android solution soon (which seems to be possible), or hold off any such possible offerings until A3SA agrees to the SD requests to change their specifications? That is a critical question which would seem to be 100% under SD decision control, even if it ends up undercutting SD's desires for promoting their existing solution path. FD: I don't actually expect SD to answer the question publicly, but I would hope they are discussing it internally.

[hdhruser]

In our opinion A3SA is trying to make supporting DRM as difficult as possible. As A3SA rules stand today DRM cannot be supported on any Apple product (Mac, iPhone, iPad, or Apple TV), cannot be supported on any Microsoft product (Windows or XBox), cannot be supported on any web based television (Samsung or LG) even if ATSC 3.0 certified, and we are pretty sure cannot be supported on Roku.

Let's, for the moment, assume A3SA continues to insist on their documented end-to-end fully protected content path (which, to this point, they seem to be choosing to do, and for which alternative vendors have chosen to accommodate; even the public documents specified a clear potential recording/playback path with an A3SA approved solution set). That is clearly in conflict with SD's current desired solution path. So, does SD plan to offer an Android solution soon (which seems to be possible), or hold off any such possible offerings until A3SA agrees to the SD requests to change their specifications? That is a critical question which would seem to be 100% under SD decision control, even if it ends up undercutting SD's desires for promoting their existing solution path. FD: I don't actually expect SD to answer the question publicly, but I would hope they are discussing it internally.

Some alternative vendors have attempted to accommodate but it just never seems to work well - have you not been following any of Lon.TV's videos about such devices? It's not just a matter of they just work, there are many caveats and some might be deal-breakers if you knew about them (for example, do you really want a device running very outdated and insecure software running on your local network? If you don't allow it to connect to your network it will be useless, but if you do allow it you are leaving an opening for hackers to get into your system).

I would very much prefer that SD stick to its guns. If they release a barely-working or insecure device, the A3SA (may they rot in hell) will use them as an example of available equipment. If they shut off ATSC1 and all the ATSC3 channels are DRM protected then I'll just watch YouTube and/or free streaming channels. The local broadcast channels will be useless if they stop working when there's an internet outage (as might be the case during severe weather, the one time you might really need to see a local broadcaster). But at this point I have no use for the local broadcasters anyway, they are killing their golden goose and there is a whole generation of younger people that rarely or never watch broadcast TV (one of the reasons Cable TV is quickly dying). If sports broadcasts move completely to streaming then that golden goose will be cooked. I have almost completely stopped watching new network TV shows, I have too many other things to watch or do that I find more interesting anyway, and if they really shut off ATSC1 in two or three years then I won't be missing anything. I would not blame the SD founders if they started looking for new tech fields to spend their development time on, since the A3SA and the local broadcasters are clearly suicidal and unless they change direction very quickly they will be competing for a rapidly declining pool of viewers.

[vandyman]

We are very clear on our website and on Amazon that DRM channels are not supported.

With that said, the HDHomeRun hardware has little to do with DRM as its job is to stream the DRM encrypted video to the app.
The decryption and playback is handled by the player device with app assistance.

In our opinion A3SA is trying to make supporting DRM as difficult as possible. As A3SA rules stand today DRM cannot be supported on any Apple product (Mac, iPhone, iPad, or Apple TV), cannot be supported on any Microsoft product (Windows or XBox), cannot be supported on any web based television (Samsung or LG) even if ATSC 3.0 certified, and we are pretty sure cannot be supported on Roku.

Most people that buy these devices have no clue what drm is.
They surely are going down the rabbits hole when they find out after making a purchase latter.

I personally purchased the Connect 4k servio when it came out. When 3.0 basically was starting off.
Will I buy a new device for atsc 3 if the Connect 4k goes bad, No Way..
Sorry, I am just being fair..

[jasondeanny]

Maybe the "solution" will be to have multiple levels of certification and badging.

ATSC3/NextGenTV Certified - Can receive ATSC3 signals. Should be able to watch unencrypted channels.
A3SA Certified - Can actually watch these channels if you're connected to the Internet.

[Jaylaw]

We're good as long as we can watch all channels, encrypted or not, even if it requires an internet connection. Our current setup already connects to the router, so that's not an issue.

[pothead]

If I am connected to the internet on my Fire cube I still am unable to view the DRM content. Is this ever going to be available? Using my LG tv as a media server to view DRM is still not an option. Why did I spend $199 to view the same channels? The ATSC 3.0 is very misleading. Bait and switch is what it's called I believe. And its illegal where I am from. SMH

[RBBrittain]

If I am connected to the internet on my Fire cube I still am unable to view the DRM content. Is this ever going to be available? Using my LG tv as a media server to view DRM is still not an option. Why did I spend $199 to view the same channels? The ATSC 3.0 is very misleading. Bait and switch is what it's called I believe. And its illegal where I am from. SMH

Nope. The real "bait and switch" was when broadcasters let SiliconDust lead the way with ATSC 3.0, then sneaked DRM onto live channels, then set up the rules for DRM in such a way that it's extremely hard, if not impossible, for the HDHR to qualify. SiliconDust's home page clearly states that the HDHR will not receive DRM channels; so do most other sales channels. You didn't do YOUR due diligence; though I don't think SiliconDust will let us link to competing products here, there are at least three sub-$100 ATSC 3.0 tuners on the market that support DRM, though the only one with multi-tuner DRM support is more expensive than the HDHR & is less flexible. A lot of folks like me are sticking with SiliconDust and HDHR because we strongly believe the broadcasters themselves created most of the blowback against ATSC 3.0 by insisting on such problematic technologies as DRM, even if we have an alternative tuner with DRM support (my TV has one but its DVR doesn't work with 3.0 & is wonky even on 1.0).

[elvisimprsntr]

Perhaps I am late to the party, but I recently installed firmware 20250623 and noticed "ATSC3-DRM SD20230420" on the System Menu tab.

I assume this means the HDHR can tune to DRM channels, but since A3SA requires encryption end to end, decryption would have to be added to the client application, which sadly Google Widevine is not supported on Apple, Microsoft, etc.

Based on the date revision scheme, HDHR had this capability in April 2023. So it's been over 2 years and there is no traction by the A3SA to allow gateway devices.

Code: Select all

System Status
Hardware Model	HDHR5-4K
Firmware Version	20250623
ATSC3-DRM	SD20230420
Device ID	10816D14
MAC Address	00:18:DD:XX:XX:XX
IP Address	192.168.69.72
Subnet Mask	255.255.255.0

[lovekeiiy]

... noticed "ATSC3-DRM SD20230420" on the System Menu tab.
.. this means the HDHR can tune to DRM channels ...

In the broad sense yes. HDHR got "certified" years ago. It was only a step in the process to get "approved" to be allowed to tune-in DRM channels. It never got approved DRM decryption.

Whether or not DRM decryption will be allowed, it's hard to say. The reasoning behind it is almost a joke since they're trying to it is prevent "pirating" but obviously they don't check and see the content is still on there. They don't seem to realize, make it easy to access on a streaming service, the people won't have a need. Alas, too many networks, media companies, and so forth are all trying to create their own streaming service which now makes it less convenient, and arguably, less affordable when it's another service consumers are having to pay.

Not that it makes any of us feel better but since ATSC 3.0 has been implemented poorly and sparatifcally, some major TV brands such as Samsung are not including ATSC 3 tuners because not many people will be able to use to justify paying the patent fees. Maybe it's true.

At this point, I think companies like SiliconDust are going to have make a new device, when, and if, the powers that be will allow separate TV tuner boxes to decoded DRM channels. I don't recall any set-top-box box being allowed; even ones that only connect to one TV. I may be wrong on the latter.

[gtb]

At this point, I think companies like SiliconDust are going to have make a new device, when, and if, the powers that be will allow separate TV tuner boxes to decoded DRM channels. I don't recall any set-top-box box being allowed; even ones that only connect to one TV. I may be wrong on the latter.

The rules (at least the publicly available ones) have always documented that it is possible (and other 3rd party solutions are available showing it is). But those solutions/alternatives do not, in any way, do it the SD way, which is the problem that SD has (they could change their approach (and abandoning some (most?) of their current approaches), and provide a solution, or try to work to change the system). If SD really believes that they can change the system that would be easier on SD, but there is no current statement from SD as to when they expect those change proposals might be concluded (and, to be fair, SD is not in control of the schedules). At some point, if they can't change the system, they will need to accept the reality, and cut their losses (somewhat like the never released 6 tuner prime with transcoding which after many many years SD admitted was never going to happen (again, to be fair, some of the reasons were beyond their control, but some were also accepting the reality of ROI)).

[DaveNLR]

We are very clear on our website and on Amazon that DRM channels are not supported.

Is there any consideration to making an Android dongle you could plug into the HDMI port on a single TV that could connect to the tuner to decode the DRM channels? I would be willing to buy two dongles for my two non-ATSC 3.0 TVs. They could connect via WiFi, hopefully work with USB power from the TV, and basically mimic the app and directly connect to the tuner like the app does, but have everything except the tuner on them.

[jasonl]

That would not be helpful as it would still require the same implementation as any other Android device.

[Cabal]

Is there any consideration to making an Android dongle you could plug into the HDMI port on a single TV that could connect to the tuner to decode the DRM channels?

The Z company is attempting this, with hardware devices, and has already had the rug pulled out from under them once. I will be surprised if their next attempt (supposedly due December) doesn't have the same results.