Las Vegas - Channel 29 or Channel 1?

[kingcoldcuts]

What do you see if you open the Program drop-down after tuning to 28?

When using the Config GUI I see "2: 128.2 DFYA3RO (no data)" with none of the PLPs locked.

If I use the Windows app, I see the same, minus the "(no data)" with PLP2 locked, and the channel tunes in. PLPs:

2: sfi=0 mod=qam16 cod=8/15 layer=core ti=none lls=0 lock=1

[kingcoldcuts]

Looks like things are working again and Symbol Quality stays locked on both PLP's. Call your contact at the tower?

So these are being broadcasted and not internet streams?

Also I don't see and have never seen Fox 5 when tuning 29, not sure why.

Tuning 29
On the drop down I see:
5001: 108.1 KLAS
5002: 113.1 KTNV (encrypted)
5003: 133.1 KVCW
5004: 103.1 KSNV

Tuning 28
Drop down:
2: 128.2 DFYA3RO

it has 3 PLP's, PLP 2 qam 16 locked and it's playing the channel.

This is not my experience. I still cannot tune any channels from the Sinclair lighthouse. I see the Signal Quality and Symbol Quality at 100% now, with Signal Strength at 68%, and PLP0+2 locked. Then the tuner fails to display a channel and shows a No Video Data error. Config GUI does show it trying to tune channel 28 when it should be trying to tune channel 29. Weird.

KVVU Fox 5 is the only ATSC3 channel using the internet based broadcast, which is still technically sent OTA. All the other ATSC3 channels are sent via "traditional" OTA broadcast.

You won't see the Fox 5 channel through the HDHR bc it doesn't have that functionality yet, and even if it did, I'm told they've added DRM.

If you want to see the ATSC3 IP based broadcast of Fox 5, you'll need a TV with an ATSC3 tuner that decodes IP streams.

[kingcoldcuts]

Just used HDHomerun Setup to run a new channel scan, and now I can occasionally tune the channels from the Sinclair lighthouse again. Check the data and you should see the times when it works and when it fails.

Weird stuff happening with 102.2, 128.2, and even 106.1 (I know I can't receive 106 - that channel has gone to very low power a the moment). If I try to tune one of them, the Flex 4k becomes transfixed on that channel according to HDHomerun Config GUI. If I try to tune 108.1 on channel 29, the GUI shows it trying to tune 128.2 on channel 28, for instance.

Any idea why this is happening?

[jasonl]

That info helped a lot. It looks like a bug in the channel scan code. It's somehow managing to pick up PLP0 from KVCW and PLP2 from KVPX simultaneously and is thinking both are on channel 28, so the KVCW stations get recorded as being on 28. It's never come up before because the only other market that even has ATSC 3.0 on adjacent channels is Phoenix on KASW 27 and KGRY-LD 28, but KGRY only runs a single PLP so it doesn't have the multiple PLP thing. Engineering is investigating.

[kingcoldcuts]

Glad to have been able to send some useful information. Hope it ends up adding some solutions to prod.

However, now back to the original bug where ATSC 3 channels tune-in/fail to tune-in intermittently. Would be great to get this solved. Is there anything else I can send you guys so we can keep troubleshooting?

Thanks!

[jasonl]

Engineering believes they know where the bug is but needs to find a slot in the schedule to work on it.

[signcarver]

That info helped a lot. It looks like a bug in the channel scan code. It's somehow managing to pick up PLP0 from KVCW and PLP2 from KVPX simultaneously and is thinking both are on channel 28, so the KVCW stations get recorded as being on 28. It's never come up before because the only other market that even has ATSC 3.0 on adjacent channels is Phoenix on KASW 27 and KGRY-LD 28, but KGRY only runs a single PLP so it doesn't have the multiple PLP thing. Engineering is investigating.

I decided to reply to this today after getting some images...
in phoenix when I use config gui and go from channel 27 to 28, I get 27's programming listed (no data)


when I go the other way from 29 to 28 I don't see the 27 streams listed

Just in case it had to be atsc3 to atsc3 I also did 35 to 28 and still didn't see the extra channels but in my case 35 typically won't come in on my 4k-dev from ks (needs just another 0.5 dB quality increase to properly lock and work) but does come in very weak on my flex (as well as other atsc3 devices) and is always useable. 27 is also the strongest of all signals I receive (initially reporting in at around -19dBm until one actually tunes a stream). However I also decided to try 27 to 35 and got this:

So it does seem to indicate things are left over from going atsc3 to atsc3 particularly when the signal is strong as I don't see such going from 28 to 35 or vice versa on either device.

[kingcoldcuts]

I'm sure there are some shenanigans happening with NAB happening, but some new quirks to report (I sent some diagnostic data - 10A64085).

Ran a new channel scan. There are channels in the UI that are no longer in the channel scan:

102.2 4K AWS
108.8 OML AWS
128.1 DEFY

These channels DID appear in the channel scan at some point over the last month or so, but not as of today. There has never been any data on these channels (not through the Flex4K anyway). Despite asking around/poking around I can't find any information as to what these are/were.

Weird.

EDIT: Upon app relaunch (MacOS) those channels are no longer in the UI.

[kingcoldcuts]

Over the weekend, I noticed the following on Channel 29:

PLP0 - Tuner fails to lock:
Signal Strength - 100%
Signal Quality - 100%
Symbol Quality - bounces between 0-100%

PLP1 - Tuner locks:
Signal Strength - 100%
Signal Quality - 45-65%
Symbol Quality - 100%

I am now seeing occasional dropouts when tuner is using PLP1 and continue to receive NO picture when using PLP0. Someone at AVS mentioned a Silence STA request in the LMS, but that appears to be for the lighthouse in Pahrump on Channel 15.

Any insights?

[oaks37]

Sounds like PLP0 isn't used for television services.

[jasonl]

Symbol quality is basically a ratio of uncorrupted packets vs total packets. If there isn't anything being transmitted on the PLP except LLS data, then there won't be any packets most of the time, and thus it will mostly sit at 0% except for spikes to 100% when the LLS comes in.

[kingcoldcuts]

Symbol quality is basically a ratio of uncorrupted packets vs total packets. If there isn't anything being transmitted on the PLP except LLS data, then there won't be any packets most of the time, and thus it will mostly sit at 0% except for spikes to 100% when the LLS comes in.

Thanks.

Signal quality was 100% on PLP1 until this last weekend. Wondering what kind of variables could cause that?

[signcarver]

First thing I'd check is if it went to different coding thus requiring better snr but there are a million other things that can affect reception. I think you said it was 8/15 before but that might have been for something else.

Edit: i think it was for something else but also note that qam would also change such like that if going to a higher number... what i remember seeing at a glance was like qam64 8/15 (or maybe even qam16).

[jasonl]

All the old screenshots are expired, but that would definitely be the first thing to check. The scale of signal quality changes depending on the required minimum signal quality to receive a particular signal, so if the modulation or code rate changes it is normal for the quality to change even if the actual SNR has not, except if the SNR is so high that it ends up at 100% on both.

[kingcoldcuts]

Edit: I have updated the first link...

Here is the screen recording from 2025-03-11:

2025-03-11 Config GUI - NW LV

And one from 2025-04-22:

2025-04-22 Config GUI - NW LV

Is it something I have done to cause the change in behavior? Or something I need to do to get the Signal Quality back? I recently tried to dial in the antenna again, but cannot get anything above these levels. I didn't touch it before this last weekend. There are times when it dips below 55%, making the picture go in and out, and therefore unwatchable.

Thanks!