ATSC 3.0 Internet Streams

[danieljlevine]

Ok, so I noticed at rabbitears.info, for Baltimore area there is a station 54-10 that is supposed to be an internet stream. So on my HD HR Flex 4K, I have 54-1, 2, 3, 4, and 11, which I assumed were ATSC 1.0 channels. And 154-1 and 154-31 as ATSC 3.0 channels. I guess the ATSC 3.0 internet stream would be 154-31? Nothing come up for that channel for me: Unable to play channel: no video data.

Is this type of channel supported by HDHR Flex 4K currently?
Is the channel working for an AtSC 3.0 TV with internet connection?
Is the channel DRM encrypted?

Here’s another data point: I also see on rabbitears.info that there’s a Washington, DC ATSC 3.0 internet stream located at 7-10. Somehow I get the CBS 107-1 station fine with my setup. However, I don’t even see any other 107 sub-channels. Shouldn’t I see that one? I’d think the “internet” stream would be trivial to receive since I get the 107-1 channel fine.

[fri1038sd]

HDHomeruns don't support the ATSC 3.0 internet streaming channels, so they won't show up on your Flex4K.

Sinclair 3.0 owned/managed stations usually have the T2 tennis streaming channel as a dot ten subchannel viewable on some internet connected TVs and set top boxes.

WNUV 3.0 does not have a 154.31 currently. Probably do a rescan to remove it. It was an experimental channel for testing mobile devices. Sinclair likes to experiment on WNUV in Baltimore and WIAV in Washington DC.

There might be something currently on qam16 PLP0 but no idea what. If you try to tune it with config_gui you'll just see symbol quality bounce from 0 to 100 every second. The five dot one channels are all on qam256 PLP1 with WMAR and WBAL DRM-encrypted.

[nickk]

Supporting ATSC 3.0 internet channels is quite possible... open to feedback as to how useful/important this feature would be.

[fri1038sd]

Speaking for myself, I would probably seek out a more direct way to watch such a streaming channel if it existed and I had interest in the content. The fewer layers of complexity, the better. T2 requires both an OTA signal and internet, no?

But I think the content would drive customer demand. If it was 4K MeTV Toons on a streaming channel instead of tennis, they'd be knocking down your doors to have it.

[Cabal]

Supporting ATSC 3.0 internet channels is quite possible... open to feedback as to how useful/important this feature would be.

I can't say it would necessarily be *useful*, but I would be surprised not to have support eventually, given competitors in this market.

But PLEASE include an icon so users know it is an Internet channel and will consume bandwidth.

[signcarver]

Supporting ATSC 3.0 internet channels is quite possible... open to feedback as to how useful/important this feature would be.

I would love to see this as well as a/344 broadcast apps (could such be the same in some cases). Though since the HDHR (4K) doesn't yet support encrypted channels, one thing I have been told by a competitor for my problems with their box in the phoenix market is that they have most of the DRM channels marked so that either the device supports offline/connectionless encryption, or supports apps and their box doesn't support apps (yet) and (currently) requires internet for DRM so it can't decode the audio/video for those channels (captions work just fine). My other 2 boxes either support not requiring internet for DRM, or supports apps. I have been away on a 30 day cruise and haven't even tried any atsc 3.0 since I have been back (had to change a bunch of things with cable provider the day before I left and am still trying to work out the problems I am seeing with that). Another manufacturer told me there were some more phoenix changes that may cause issues with their box, tomorrow is the day I plan on spending some time looking at the current state of things on all.

I have also been told that in some cases DRM support must be present for the internet based channels so I can understand it taking some time to implement.

[jeffdafoe]

Supporting ATSC 3.0 internet channels is quite possible... open to feedback as to how useful/important this feature would be.

I would like this feature. They are playing a lot of games in the South Florida market where the ATSC 1.0 transmission is a kazillion watts on a tower at location A, the 3.0 transmission is on a tower in an entire other city with an ERP of 15 kW (cannot receive reliably). I don't understand how they can do this. Or worse, our local PBS affiliate moved their transmitter almost 100 miles south, increased the wattage, and alleges the same contour. In both cases I could watch the internet channels.

-Jeff

[Cabal]

Supporting ATSC 3.0 internet channels is quite possible... open to feedback as to how useful/important this feature would be.

I would like this feature. They are playing a lot of games in the South Florida market where the ATSC 1.0 transmission is a kazillion watts on a tower at location A, the 3.0 transmission is on a tower in an entire other city with an ERP of 15 kW (cannot receive reliably). I don't understand how they can do this. Or worse, our local PBS affiliate moved their transmitter almost 100 miles south, increased the wattage, and alleges the same contour. In both cases I could watch the internet channels.

-Jeff

I think you misunderstood what is being asked, it is not some sort of translation system. These are virtual channels that are broadcast on ATSC 3.0 from a tower with a link to an Internet stream:

https://www.sportsvideo.org/2024/03/21/ ... -channels/

Currently the T2 tennis channel is one of only a couple doing this, arguably as a demo.

[howardc1243]

Supporting ATSC 3.0 internet channels is quite possible... open to feedback as to how useful/important this feature would be.

I would like this feature. They are playing a lot of games in the South Florida market where the ATSC 1.0 transmission is a kazillion watts on a tower at location A, the 3.0 transmission is on a tower in an entire other city with an ERP of 15 kW (cannot receive reliably). I don't understand how they can do this. Or worse, our local PBS affiliate moved their transmitter almost 100 miles south, increased the wattage, and alleges the same contour. In both cases I could watch the internet channels.

-Jeff

I think you misunderstood what is being asked, it is not some sort of translation system. These are virtual channels that are broadcast on ATSC 3.0 from a tower with a link to an Internet stream:

https://www.sportsvideo.org/2024/03/21/ ... -channels/

Currently the T2 tennis channel is one of only a couple doing this, arguably as a demo.

if i am following nickk correctly the HDhomerun products that has the atsc 3.0 tuner bilt-in can handle the non-drm as well as the drm however the T2 that everyone on this forum is looking to get - if my understanding is correct there are no HDhomerun products at this time that can allow a internet crossover.
T2 would have to be received through a smart TV or a smart phone that can handle the H264 codec in addition to the internet stream.
i may be wrong but, it seems that is where forgelink comes in, only nickk and company can say.

[nickk]

if i am following nickk correctly the HDhomerun products that has the atsc 3.0 tuner bilt-in can handle the non-drm as well as the drm however the T2 that everyone on this forum is looking to get - if my understanding is correct there are no HDhomerun products at this time that can allow a internet crossover.
T2 would have to be received through a smart TV or a smart phone that can handle the H264 codec in addition to the internet stream.

ATSC 3.0 announced internet delivered channels are still ATSC 3.0 format (HEVC video and AC4 audio) and they require an ATSC 3.0 tuner to work. This thread is a discussion to gauge interest in the feature being added to the HDHomeRun.

BTW - not all televisions support this feature. Samsung have stated that they will not support.

i may be wrong but, it seems that is where forgelink comes in, only nickk and company can say.

Forgelink is a new product family, it is not related to television.

[kyl416]

the 3.0 transmission is on a tower in an entire other city with an ERP of 15 kW (cannot receive reliably).

That's because the ATSC 1.0 simulcasts have to be on signals that reach at least 95% coverage of the station that converted to ATSC 3.0. In a bunch of markets that meant the only viable ATSC 3.0 lighthouse was a LPTV or Class A signal because the rest of the participating stations either don't have room to take on the simulcasts or don't have matching coverage areas if a full power station converted.

i.e. Out of West Palm Beach's participants:
WPTV and WFLX were both already doing 1 HD/5 SD. So converting either one of them wasn't an option as 6 subchannels would have to find new homes
WTVX transmits from a tower in Palm City, which would have resulted in too much population loss to the north if they converted and the population loss to the south would have prevented them from being the ATSC 1.0 hosts for WPTV, WFLX or WPEC
WPEC has a massive VHF coverage area so they would have needed to use WPTV as the host for CBS HD if they converted, which as mentioned above was already doing 1 HD/5 SD
So the only option to start the clock in West Palm Beach was to convert Sinclair's WWHB-CD


The long term plan when ATSC 3.0 tuner penetration is high enough is for stations to leave the lighthouse and convert their own signals, but that isn't happening anytime soon as there are zero plans to issue manufacturer mandates or fund a coupon converter program.

Or worse, our local PBS affiliate moved their transmitter almost 100 miles south, increased the wattage, and alleges the same contour.

That has nothing to do with ATSC 3.0. It's because your PBS affiliate WXEL opted to sell their spectrum during the auction and is now a guest on WPBT. For the northern portions of your market they still have their RF 31 translator in Fort Pierce.

[anonymouse]

ATSC 3.0 announced internet delivered channels are still ATSC 3.0 format (HEVC video and AC4 audio) and they require an ATSC 3.0 tuner to work. This thread is a discussion to gauge interest in the feature being added to the HDHomeRun.

I would be interested in such a feature.

If SD is serious about engaging with its customer base about this feature, I suggest at least a customer survey -- I'm assuming that the vast majority of HDHomeRun owners don't read visit this forum, and certainly wouldn't know that this thread is now about gauging interest, based on the thread title...

[jeffdafoe]

I think you misunderstood what is being asked, it is not some sort of translation system. These are virtual channels that are broadcast on ATSC 3.0 from a tower with a link to an Internet stream:

https://www.sportsvideo.org/2024/03/21/ ... -channels/

Currently the T2 tennis channel is one of only a couple doing this, arguably as a demo.

My assumption was:

- The feature would take time to develop
- More stations will add support
- Since the stream URL is almost the only thing being transmitted, it will be more likely to be received successfully in the situation where the normal broadcast breaks up.

-Jeff

[danieljlevine]

I say add support for everything you can, given we’re in a waiting state for DRM. I assume someday it will come through. If you don’t implement all the features, competitors will just point out what HDHRs don’t support and they do. And you probably don’t need to get an OTA internet stream great to receive the necessary URL information.

It’s not clear to me whether these stations are DRM encrypted yet. If not, then perhaps I can get one.

[danieljlevine]

I picked up a Z******** just to see what I’m missing currently. Indeed I was able to get the T2 channel in my area. So, yeah, I’d want my HDHR box to at least allow me to receive it as well. It wasn’t clear from their Info button channel information whether that OTA transmission is DRM encrypted or not. The audio on my ATMOS capable receiver with pass through turned on the TV sounded better than their ATSC 1.0 and ATSC 3.0 station audio. I don’t recall what my audio said the signal was. Their box just says Dolby Audio and doesn’t seem to change for actual OTA channels. I don’t believe they showed any audio information or Dolby Audio logo when I watched the T2 internet streamed channel. Yet is sounded better than the other channels on their tuner.