Encryption

[nblair5]

Not buying this. International access to sports is pretty easy. If I am outside of the US and Canada and want to watch the NFL, I can go sign up for NFL Game Pass on DAZN and get all the games. If I want to watch the NHL, it's not as unified, as Disney+ has the package in some regions, a couple different regional providers have specific countries, and the league's own service covers everywhere else, but still, one provider in any particular country. The ease of access thing is much more of a domestic concern where the leagues have intentionally fragmented things to make more money.

I'm not sure why you picked this piece of my post to poke holes in, while ignoring the main question. I'm in the US and not a consumer of sketchy IPTV offerings, so I'm not going to join in diving down this particular rabbit hole. But a glance at the DAZN wikipedia page tells me that they've had the NFL gamepass for exactly two seasons. Is that a long enough time that we should be seeing a shift in international consumption of illicit IPTV sources?

I'm not sure Silicondust wants to be taking that position, because it is exactly the number of seasons I've been blocked from watching my local NFL team by DRM applied to the channel that was my primary purpose for purchasing an HDFX-4K. So is that a long time, or a short time? Pick a lane.

Now I get that SD is a victim here too, but you're asking for a lot of patience from your customers. If you're going to respond to their posts with a defense of the motives behind that DRM by saying "The concern there is very real", please be prepared to address a direct response to that statement.

[NedS]

We're not trying to excuse the use of DRM. DRM is almost always a bad solution that hurts the honest consumer more than it hurts the pirate. That being said, "the pirate" can still be a real concern, even if DRM is a stupid way to handle it.

[nblair5]

Listen, I know SD isn't going to get anywhere trying to convince A3SA to abandon DRM. I'm fine letting EFF push for that while SD pushes for a functional implementation.

However, I'm seeing a lot more from the company about how a difficult to quantify threat "can still be a real concern" than what the company is doing to address the real and quantifiable damage incurred by your customers you are talking to. It's an interesting choice and my MBA classes would have suggested maybe not saying anything about it at all.

But since you have, my original question was seeking to understand why SD representatives think that telling us that A3SA's concern is very real is something that SD customers have reason to believe and is relevant to our choices, when their actions make it clear that they themselves are not taking it seriously.

[nickk]

Julie and I are the ones negotiating with A3SA.

It remains today that there is no A3SA-approved pathway that is compatible with Roku, Apple TV, XBox, LG, Samsung, Windows, Mac, or iOS. We have renewed efforts to get this changed.

[NedS]

You're reading too much into what jasonl said, and are seeing things there that don't exist. Frankly, I don't care what is a real concern for these massive broadcast companies. I don't really care what your MBA class says either. We're a weird company, we do weird things like try to keep customers in the loop (as much as possible, and it's not enough, I know, but our hands are tied). Most companies would just give you some boiler-plate response about DRM and say nothing, and not allow any discussion about it on their website. They do that because sometimes users will read things into their statements that aren't actually there.

[nblair5]

There is weird and then there is whatever this is. Have a discussion about DRM and the motivations or don't, I won't hold it against SD either way. Jason posted this:
viewtopic.php?p=402661#p402661

I asked two simple follow up questions to the point he raised in sentences 2 and 3 of a 4 sentence post. "Why should we believe that given X observations?" and subsequently "Why is this something that an SD employee thinks we need to hear?"

Feel free to ignore the questions, but it was a short post...shorter than your accusation that I was misreading it. Maybe your post could have spent fewer words accusing me of miscomprehension and used those words instead to explain what the intent of the original post was, so that I might understand. Or just let the conversation die silently if it is a path you (or Jason) realized you didn't really want to take.

Please feel free to get this thread back on topic with:

• Whatever you can tell us about recent or planned discussions with A3SA.
• Progress on DRM viewing for the Android app (since that is the only item not listed in Nick's post above, and some of us are already mostly android as a result of the cablecard path and the HDHR Prime).

[anonymouse]

Please feel free to get this thread back on topic with:

• Whatever you can tell us about recent or planned discussions with A3SA.
• Progress on DRM viewing for the Android app (since that is the only item not listed in Nick's post above, and some of us are already mostly android as a result of the cablecard path and the HDHR Prime).

What makes you think that SD wouldn't already be doing these things if a) they could and b) there WAS something to report. They're certainly not waiting for some random poster/customer to prompt them to do something that they have repeatedly said they would when they could.

Please feel free to sit on your hands until then.

[nblair5]

Giving your post the benefit of the doubt as a sincere question, even though your last line makes me think you also are not interested in an actual exchange of ideas...

What makes me think SD might have something they could share in those two areas is literally nickk's post from yesterday. In the past when they've discussed active negotiation they've been able to offer some sense of timing of the discussions. He also specifically offers that they have renewed efforts for what looks like all of the non-android pathways. If he can share that, I would expect there is something that could be said about android, even if it is "no progress".

I'm really not sure what is going on with the hostility in this thread.

[iTurbo6]

Hopefully with Brendan Carr at the FCC now, we can get this to his attention. No reason to give away airwaves to broadcasters that intend to do a disservice to the public.

[NedS]

Hopefully with Brendan Carr at the FCC now, we can get this to his attention. No reason to give away airwaves to broadcasters that intend to do a disservice to the public.

He's been there since 2017 and hasn't done jack regarding DRM, so don't get your hopes up.

[iTurbo6]

he's pretty active on X. would be interesting if the same people signing the change petition started blowing him up on X asking for the removal of DRM. it would get a ton of attention.

[zaytar]

The FCC isn’t going to do anything no matter who is in charge or what political party is in power.

We are a niche of a niche of a niche of consumers.

Most people in the US get their media from streaming or cable, IF they watch TV at all. A small subset of the population uses over the air antennas, and the majority of those are connected to TVs.

A subset of those consumers who have a TV with an antenna that actually own a TV with an ATSC 3.0 tuner are not really affected by DRM because they currently work.

We as a consumer group are what is left over after all of that. Not a big market segment in comparison to the others at all.

So not a big enough group for the federal government to make a priority for changing the rules or standing up to media companies, particularly when those companies spend millions on lobbying to keep the status quo.

I’m annoyed by all of this like everyone else here, but this endless request for updates , demanding answers from SiliconDust, or somehow believing the FCC is going to save us is endlessly tiring.

I’d rather SD just drop the effort and spend resources on improving their applications and any new product areas they have in mind instead of wasting time on a broken standard.

For people impacted by DRM preventing any reception due to your location, signal strength, etc - I feel you but you’re even a smaller group within our group.

[anonymouse]

I’m annoyed by all of this like everyone else here, but this endless request for updates , demanding answers from SiliconDust, or somehow believing the FCC is going to save us is endlessly tiring.

+100

[iTurbo6]

nick - nobody uses bluesky. you locked the thread so that people can't reply and tell you how cringe that is. even the fact that you posted that is so lame. instaed of making the devices better - which haven't been updated in a long time, or making an app better than channels to watch hdhr, you're busy creating social media fringe accounts to try to take weird political stances that the majority of the country doesn't believe in.

[Frank Hagan]

nick - nobody uses bluesky. you locked the thread so that people can't reply and tell you how cringe that is. even the fact that you posted that is so lame. instaed of making the devices better - which haven't been updated in a long time, or making an app better than channels to watch hdhr, you're busy creating social media fringe accounts to try to take weird political stances that the majority of the country doesn't believe in.

I love Bluesky ... what is Nick's handle? Any other SD folks on Bluesky?