Encryption

ATSC 3.0 Forum
Post Reply
Online
nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 20196
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am
x 385

Encryption

Post by nickk »

[Updated 2/21/2024]

ATSC 3.0 DRM: Some ATSC 3.0 channels may be DRM encrypted and will not work. If an ATSC 3.0 channel is DRM encrypted the HDHomeRun FLEX 4K will use the ATSC 1.0 version of the channel. DRM encryption is used by select broadcasters to block out-of-home viewing, limit what player devices can be used to watch TV, enforce that the original tuner hardware is always present to view recordings, and to block third party apps. Optionally a broadcaster can force recordings to expire after a period of time and/or block recording completely.

Will unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my Apple TV, iPad, iPhone, Mac?
Yes, unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels will play on all Apple TV 4K models and all modern iPad, iPhone, and Mac models.
The HDHomeRun FLEX 4K + M1 Mac Mini + HDHomeRun app has been NextGen TV certified.
The HDHomeRun FLEX 4K + iPad Air (5th gen) + HDHomeRun app has been NextGen TV certified.

Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my Apple TV, iPad, iPhone, Mac?
No. ATSC 3.0 uses Google Widevine DRM encryption which is a competitor to Apple FairPlay DRM encryption. This issue is not specific to the HDHomeRun product. A3SA is aware of the problem. There is no solution at this time. Any solution is outside our control and our guess is that a solution is unlikely anytime soon.

Will unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my XBox or my Windows 10/11 system?
Yes, unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels will play on newer XBox consoles and channels up to 1080p60 will play on original XBox One consoles. Unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels will play on modern Windows 10 and 11 systems.
The HDHomeRun FLEX 4K + Windows 11 + HDHomeRun app has been NextGen TV certified.

Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my XBox or my Windows 10/11 system?
No. ATSC 3.0 uses Google Widevine DRM encryption which is a competitor to Microsoft PlayReady DRM encryption. This issue is not specific to the HDHomeRun product. A3SA is aware of the problem. There is no solution at this time. Any solution is outside our control and our guess is that a solution is unlikely anytime soon.

Will unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my Roku TV or Roku Ultra?
Yes, unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels will play on modern Roku televisions and the Roku Ultra 4800X or newer. ATSC 3.0 channels will not play on the Roku Stick, Roku Ultra LT, or older Roku products.

Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my Roku television or Roku Ultra?
No. While Roku does support Google Widevine DRM encryption (we have demonstrated Roku playing encrypted ATSC 3.0 test channels) there are other A3SA requirements that cannot be met by an installable app. This issue is not specific to the HDHomeRun product. A3SA is aware of the problem. There is no solution at this time. Any solution is outside our control and our guess is that a solution is unlikely anytime soon.
Note that the requirements do not prevent Roku from building a television with an ATSC 3.0 tuner and supporting DRM encrypted channels received directly via antenna.

Will unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my LG television?
Yes, unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels will play on modern LG televisions, including non ATSC 3.0 LG television models.

Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my LG television?
Using a gateway product - no. While LG does support Google Widevine DRM encryption there are other A3SA requirements that cannot be met by an installable app. This issue is not specific to the HDHomeRun product. A3SA is aware of the problem. There is no solution at this time. Any solution is outside our control and our guess is that a solution is unlikely anytime soon.
Note that if your LG television is an ATSC 3.0 model and you directly connect an antenna to your LG television it will play ATSC 3.0 channels using its built in tuner. The HDHomeRun is not involved with this approach and no DVR functions are available.

Will unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my Android TV or Fire TV device?
Yes, unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels will play on modern Android TV and Fire TV devices. Unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels will play on Android / Fire TV phones and tablets if the hardware supports 10-bit HEVC video.
The HDHomeRun FLEX 4K + Android Onn box (2nd gen) + HDHomeRun app has been NextGen TV certified.
The HDHomeRun FLEX 4K + Fire TV Cube + HDHomeRun app has been NextGen TV certified.

Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my Android or Fire TV device?
Using a gateway product - we expect it will be possible in the future but it is not possible today. The Google Widevine DRM decryption is possible but there are other requirements that are draft/incomplete at this time. There is activity happening.

darcilicious
Posts: 202
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:08 pm
Location: Portland, OR
x 17

Re: Encryption

Post by darcilicious »

nickk wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:34 pm
Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my Apple TV, iPad, iPhone, Mac?
No. ATSC 3.0 uses Google Widevine DRM encryption which is a competitor to Apple FairPlay DRM encryption. This issue is not specific to the HDHomeRun product. A3SA is aware of the problem. There is no solution at this time. Any solution is outside our control and our guess is that a solution is unlikely anytime soon.
Excellent! I can stop paying attention to this entire thing now. I'm not buying another box just to decrypt ATSC 3.0 DRM channels someday.

Good luck to everyone at SiliconDust. As far as I'm concerned, you all rock and you (and plenty of your customers) are being screwed over for no good reason.

Over and out.

Phoenixfury
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:55 am
x 19

Re: Encryption

Post by Phoenixfury »

This isn't the best news, but not the worst either. As long as SD can get us Android support, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Android support means it'll cost us $20 for each tv if we don't already have an Adroid box or a supported Chromecast already. Ideally it would be better if it just worked on our device of choice. We shouldn't have ro do that, but $20 pet tv is better than not getting the encrypted channels at all.

Cabal
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:53 pm
x 56

Re: Encryption

Post by Cabal »

In multiple places you say:
nickk wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:34 pm A3SA requirements that cannot be met by an installable app
Won't the eventual Android solution be an installable app?

NedS
Silicondust
Posts: 3161
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:38 pm
x 174

Re: Encryption

Post by NedS »

Cabal wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:37 pm In multiple places you say:
nickk wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:34 pm A3SA requirements that cannot be met by an installable app
Won't the eventual Android solution be an installable app?
Google Widevine DRM is basically baked-in to Google's Android OS already. As things are today, an installable app needs those parts to already be there on the OS.

Online
nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 20196
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am
x 385

Re: Encryption

Post by nickk »

Cabal wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 6:37 pm Won't the eventual Android solution be an installable app?
Android apps can do more things (including run native code and libraries) vs Roku and LG where you can only do what the scripting language exposes.

deanfromfl
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2022 7:19 am
x 1

Re: Encryption

Post by deanfromfl »

But the nice thing about the ********* is it DOES WORK on my Samsung TV. The Silicondust 4K Flex can't play any ATSC 3.0 on my TV at all. So the win goes to ********* by far in my opinion. I wish I could get my money back for the 4K Flex box. I was sold on that it would play ATSC 3.0 and it simply does not. I hope that there is some kind of class-action lawsuit brought for false advertisement against HomeRun.
Last edited by deanfromfl on Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

howardc1243
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:50 am
Device ID: scribe 4k 15402ABF
x 28

Re: Encryption

Post by howardc1243 »

darcilicious wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 3:28 pm
nickk wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:34 pm
Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my Apple TV, iPad, iPhone, Mac?
No. ATSC 3.0 uses Google Widevine DRM encryption which is a competitor to Apple FairPlay DRM encryption. This issue is not specific to the HDHomeRun product. A3SA is aware of the problem. There is no solution at this time. Any solution is outside our control and our guess is that a solution is unlikely anytime soon.
Excellent! I can stop paying attention to this entire thing now. I'm not buying another box just to decrypt ATSC 3.0 DRM channels someday.

Good luck to everyone at SiliconDust. As far as I'm concerned, you all rock and you (and plenty of your customers) are being screwed over for no good reason.

Over and out.
one sure thing about nickk is he will stick to his guns, he will not let a3sa call the shots, and finally let your congressman/congresswoman and senator know what kind of low-ball tactics the broadcasters and a3sa is pulling.

howardc1243
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:50 am
Device ID: scribe 4k 15402ABF
x 28

Re: Encryption

Post by howardc1243 »

Phoenixfury wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 4:18 pm This isn't the best news, but not the worst either. As long as SD can get us Android support, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Android support means it'll cost us $20 for each tv if we don't already have an Adroid box or a supported Chromecast already. Ideally it would be better if it just worked on our device of choice. We shouldn't have ro do that, but $20 pet tv is better than not getting the encrypted channels at all.
nickk is not going too roll over and play dead for the a3sa, there is a lot of muscle in that bear, go get en tiger.

HoTst2
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat May 13, 2023 3:57 pm
x 19

Re: Encryption

Post by HoTst2 »

deanfromfl wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:14 pm [removed by moderator]
But what is your point here?

As HDHR products are "Gateway" devices and this forum thread is for discussing DRM solutions for them.

The ZB is a "STB" device that has a different set of requirements from the A3SA to handle DRM that are much easier for its manufacturers to meet.

decaym
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:39 am
Location: McLean, VA
x 39

Re: Encryption

Post by decaym »

I have a feeling that this FAQ will start showing up in a lot of places after a test drive here. It does a good job of illustrating just how messed up A3SA's technology choices are. It is bad enough that ATSC 3 relies on patent encumbered technology that doesn't have clear fair use cases established (which is what caused LG to pull out). Now, it is apparent that A3SA is even worse by requiring technologies that are not even supported by a majority of devices out there. Now, I'm curious how many times this list will show up in comments to the FCC (hint, hint).

kjacques1
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:07 am

Re: Encryption

Post by kjacques1 »

So are you saying that there is no reason to work on any platform other than google based for the time being?

DrSmith
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:56 am
x 11

Re: Encryption

Post by DrSmith »

nickk wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 1:34 pm Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my XBox or my Windows 10/11 system?
No. ATSC 3.0 uses Google Widevine DRM encryption which is a competitor to Microsoft PlayReady DRM encryption. This issue is not specific to the HDHomeRun product. A3SA is aware of the problem. There is no solution at this time. Any solution is outside our control and our guess is that a solution is unlikely anytime soon.
But Chrome and Firefox both work on my Windows 10/11 systems and they are using Widevine DRM. Why isn't Widevine/Windows a viable solution for SD?

Online
nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 20196
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am
x 385

Re: Encryption

Post by nickk »

DrSmith wrote: Thu Jan 25, 2024 6:51 am But Chrome and Firefox both work on my Windows 10/11 systems and they are using Widevine DRM. Why isn't Widevine/Windows a viable solution for SD?
Widevine is not supported in UWP apps, only web browsers.

Online
nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 20196
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am
x 385

Re: Encryption

Post by nickk »

deanfromfl wrote: Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:14 pm [removed by moderator]
That product does not work with Apple TV, does not work with iPad or iPhone, does not work with Mac, does not work with Windows 10 or 11, does not work with XBox, does not work with Roku, does not work with Android or Android TV, does not work with Fire TV.

A television vendor can implement DRM and allow you to watch DRM protected channels. That is possible today.
A set-top-box (HDMI out) vendor can implement DRM and allow you to watch DRM protected channels. I don't think DVR recording is allowed yet.

Something to keep in mind with DRM - specific broadcasters fought hard for the ATSC 1.0 "broadcast flag" which was a flag telling a DVR to disable recording. And some channels broadcast this flag 24/7 so there is a history of trying to block recording. With ATSC 3.0 DRM this can finally be achieved.

Post Reply