Encryption

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freway01
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Re: Encryption

Post by freway01 »

Flyoffacliff wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:28 am Just got this device, it appears that SD has been trying for years to get this device approved for DRM but has not been able to do so? It appears I am too late submitting my comments on to the FCC docket, it does not appear in the list, and the most recent comment was two days ago so it must have closed?

For the record, here is a copy of my email to my local news station:

Hello,
I receive ABCD over the air, and recently upgraded to a Next Gen TV (ATSC 3.0) tuner, but I am disappointed to find that I can’t receive ABCD's signal because it's encrypted with DRM, and apparently this is not supported with the model of tuner I have because it connects to multiple TV's. No one else in the area is broadcasting encrypted, so I am disappointed that ABCD took this route. Over the air TV has by nature, been free and unencrypted for decades. Please reverse this decision soon, before the legacy ATSC 1.0 signal goes off the air, or I will be forced to watch a different station.
I don't think Lon's petition is closed. Did you go to go to 'https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express' to file a comment. Just fill in the 'Proceeding(s):' box with 16-142, then the rest of the boxes with your information.

If you're not sure what to put in the comments box, you can go out and look at some of the other comments people have submitted by going to 'https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/search-filings', enter '16-142' in the 'Proceeding(s) box, press the 'Tab' key, then press the 'Enter' key. As of this posting, there are 4,288 comments to why allowing the broadcaster to use DRM isn't a good idea. Just click on a name and a window will open so you can see that person’s comment. Remember, the FCC has the final word on the implementation of ATSC 3.0, not the broadcaster.

After you do that, send an email to your Congressional Representatives letting them know what the broadcasters are trying to do to prevent Americans from watching the free, over-the-air local TV broadcasts in the way we are able to do today.

As for your NEXTGEV TV not decoding your DRM protected channels, is you TV connected to the internet (via wifi or Cat5 cable)? in some of the other forums out there they are saying that without the TV being out on the internet, the tuner can't validate the tuners certificate. If it is, you may need to contact the manufacture.

Flyoffacliff
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Re: Encryption

Post by Flyoffacliff »

freway01 wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:03 am
Flyoffacliff wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:28 am Just got this device, it appears that SD has been trying for years to get this device approved for DRM but has not been able to do so? It appears I am too late submitting my comments on to the FCC docket, it does not appear in the list, and the most recent comment was two days ago so it must have closed?

For the record, here is a copy of my email to my local news station:

Hello,
I receive ABCD over the air, and recently upgraded to a Next Gen TV (ATSC 3.0) tuner, but I am disappointed to find that I can’t receive ABCD's signal because it's encrypted with DRM, and apparently this is not supported with the model of tuner I have because it connects to multiple TV's. No one else in the area is broadcasting encrypted, so I am disappointed that ABCD took this route. Over the air TV has by nature, been free and unencrypted for decades. Please reverse this decision soon, before the legacy ATSC 1.0 signal goes off the air, or I will be forced to watch a different station.
I don't think Lon's petition is closed. Did you go to go to 'https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filings/express' to file a comment. Just fill in the 'Proceeding(s):' box with 16-142, then the rest of the boxes with your information.

If you're not sure what to put in the comments box, you can go out and look at some of the other comments people have submitted by going to 'https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/search-filings', enter '16-142' in the 'Proceeding(s) box, press the 'Tab' key, then press the 'Enter' key. As of this posting, there are 4,288 comments to why allowing the broadcaster to use DRM isn't a good idea. Just click on a name and a window will open so you can see that person’s comment. Remember, the FCC has the final word on the implementation of ATSC 3.0, not the broadcaster.

After you do that, send an email to your Congressional Representatives letting them know what the broadcasters are trying to do to prevent Americans from watching the free, over-the-air local TV broadcasts in the way we are able to do today.

As for your NEXTGEV TV not decoding your DRM protected channels, is you TV connected to the internet (via wifi or Cat5 cable)? in some of the other forums out there they are saying that without the TV being out on the internet, the tuner can't validate the tuners certificate. If it is, you may need to contact the manufacture.
Thanks, it worked that time. When I put the number 16-142 in before, it did not recognize it.

It's just the HDHR Flex 4k not decoding it, which I think is normal because it's not supported on these devices. I have one station showing "No Data" though.

freway01
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Re: Encryption

Post by freway01 »

It's just the HDHR Flex 4k not decoding it, which I think is normal because it's not supported on these devices. I have one station showing "No Data" though.
[/quote]
We know the HDHR Flex 4K isn't working, that's the purpose of this thread. If you've read all the posts here and the original thread, you know that the A3SA seems to be changing the rules as they go. They are also taking their time with providing SD with all of the requirements they will require SD to get their 'gateway' device certified. nickk of SD posed the latest requirements a couple of weeks ago and has replied to some of the questions members have asked him. I suggest you read through the thread from the beginning to get caught up. There is another 'gateway' device out there that pulled back on their ATSC 3.0 gateway device after they got bought by E. W. Scripps, a television broadcasting conglomerate. Scripps is a broadcaster member of the A3SA (https://a3sa.com/licensees/), and have said that they will be developing an ATSC 3.0 Tabl*o gateway device, but didn't provide any timeframe.

Question for you, if you take your new NEXTGEN TV off the internet, will the TV decode the DRM encryption? I've heard some do and some don't.

howardc1243
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Re: Encryption

Post by howardc1243 »

kyl416 wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:05 pm
tjp wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 12:32 pmIf the device has to get the content from the internet anyway - just publish the URLs on a known Internet site
Local stations only have the right to show network and syndicated programming in their viewing area, which is why the live streams on their websites only carry newscasts, local programming and other filler. Publishing stream URLs that carry all of the programming they broadcast OTA out in the open would let anyone across the country access it as it's impossible to apply state or DMA specific IP geoblocking on the streaming server level when the IP addresses used by most wireless providers resolve to one of their national data centers instead of your city. Not to mention it would invite lawsuits from companies who hold the out of market rights to regionalized programming like NFL games and syndicated sports.
roku does have a way for users in out-of-market areas to skip channels they don't want to watch, i don't think channels or plex offer that function.

kyl416
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Re: Encryption

Post by kyl416 »

howardc1243 wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:36 pm
kyl416 wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:05 pm
tjp wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 12:32 pmIf the device has to get the content from the internet anyway - just publish the URLs on a known Internet site
Local stations only have the right to show network and syndicated programming in their viewing area, which is why the live streams on their websites only carry newscasts, local programming and other filler. Publishing stream URLs that carry all of the programming they broadcast OTA out in the open would let anyone across the country access it as it's impossible to apply state or DMA specific IP geoblocking on the streaming server level when the IP addresses used by most wireless providers resolve to one of their national data centers instead of your city. Not to mention it would invite lawsuits from companies who hold the out of market rights to regionalized programming like NFL games and syndicated sports.
roku does have a way for users in out-of-market areas to skip channels they don't want to watch, i don't think channels or plex offer that function.
We're not talking about channels that Roku and other platforms include in their integrated guides. Over in Miami one of their ATSC 3.0 signals contains 2 IP delivered channels, tjp was suggesting they put the stream URLs out in the open instead of tying it to reception of their ATSC 3.0 signal if they were going to use IP delivery, which for numerous reasons, including the ones I listed, can't happen with local station streams that carry all of their network and syndicated programming.

howardc1243
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Re: Encryption

Post by howardc1243 »

mbirk1951 wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:17 am I wish SiliconDust could build an Android player module that could be DRM certified by A3SA to provide the secure path from tuner to HDMI output. It would only be the player and all the controls to the player would be handled by an Android app which would not be required to be certified by A3SA. So most of the user interface would be handled by this separate app and would be easy to update as needed, because no A3SA certification needed. Then if SD enabled third parties to use this player tuner/DVR, they could easily incorporate this into their applications. Everyone would need to purchase a SD subscription to use their player/tuner/recorder. Maybe this is not feasible but I don't see any third parties going through the A3SA certification process and SD application updates will be slowed because of A3SA recertifications.
can you imagine how many people would buy a Siliconroid?

kyl416
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Re: Encryption

Post by kyl416 »

howardc1243 wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:03 pm can you imagine how many people would buy a Siliconroid?
Not many as any feature on it is also going to be available with a $20 Onn from WalMart or any other AndroidTV based device.

Most people will want an AndroidTV device that does more than just the HDHomeRun app, and in order to do that not only would it need to be Google Play Store certified, they will also need to enter a business relationship with SVOD services like Netflix, Prime Video, Disney+ etc to get on their whitelists for 4K HDR streaming.

mbirk1951
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Re: Encryption

Post by mbirk1951 »

howardc1243 wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:03 pm
mbirk1951 wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:17 am I wish SiliconDust could build an Android player module that could be DRM certified by A3SA to provide the secure path from tuner to HDMI output. It would only be the player and all the controls to the player would be handled by an Android app which would not be required to be certified by A3SA. So most of the user interface would be handled by this separate app and would be easy to update as needed, because no A3SA certification needed. Then if SD enabled third parties to use this player tuner/DVR, they could easily incorporate this into their applications. Everyone would need to purchase a SD subscription to use their player/tuner/recorder. Maybe this is not feasible but I don't see any third parties going through the A3SA certification process and SD application updates will be slowed because of A3SA recertifications.
can you imagine how many people would buy a Siliconroid?
Cute, but I apparently wasn't clear. I was just suggesting an Android software player, no new hardware. Currently SiliconDust allows third parties to use their tuner, and I believe this drives much of their popularity. If SD is able to get a DRM certified solution, then I think it would be great if third parties could have some access to this system. Suppose they could see what has been recorded, see what is currently available live, request recordings to be done, request a recording or live TV to be played on the SD certified system. Seems like third parties should be able to do this without needing A3SA certification. Everyone would need a SD subscription to play DRM content, so it should still provide income for SD to help pay for the whole thing. Even Apple TV apps could still have some of these features available, but to play DRM content they would just need to switch to an Android device temporarily. Same as they would need to do if they had a tuner with only HDMI output.

Ken.F
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Re: Encryption

Post by Ken.F »

mbirk1951 wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:16 am Cute, but I apparently wasn't clear. I was just suggesting an Android software player, no new hardware. Currently SiliconDust allows third parties to use their tuner, and I believe this drives much of their popularity. If SD is able to get a DRM certified solution, then I think it would be great if third parties could have some access to this system. Suppose they could see what has been recorded, see what is currently available live, request recordings to be done, request a recording or live TV to be played on the SD certified system. Seems like third parties should be able to do this without needing A3SA certification. Everyone would need a SD subscription to play DRM content, so it should still provide income for SD to help pay for the whole thing. Even Apple TV apps could still have some of these features available, but to play DRM content they would just need to switch to an Android device temporarily. Same as they would need to do if they had a tuner with only HDMI output.
All of that has already been done. I use those functions every day with djp952's Kodi addon. The only thing I can't do is play CableCARD DRM channels, but I can launch the HDHomeRun app on my Shield from within Kodi when I need to do that.

Flyoffacliff
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Re: Encryption

Post by Flyoffacliff »

To me surprise, someone from the engineering department at my local ATSC 3.0 encrypted station responded. They basically said it's the industry standard, contact your device manufacturer for not fully supporting the standard.

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nickk
Silicondust
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Re: Encryption

Post by nickk »

Flyoffacliff wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:49 pm To me surprise, someone from the engineering department at my local ATSC 3.0 encrypted station responded. They basically said it's the industry standard, contact your device manufacturer for not fully supporting the standard.
The station is jumping the gun. As of Feb 2024 there is still no implementable standard for video gateway devices to support DRM protected channels.

Phoenixfury
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Re: Encryption

Post by Phoenixfury »

nickk wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:19 pm
Flyoffacliff wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:49 pm To me surprise, someone from the engineering department at my local ATSC 3.0 encrypted station responded. They basically said it's the industry standard, contact your device manufacturer for not fully supporting the standard.
The station is jumping the gun. As of Feb 2024 there is still no implementable standard for video gateway devices to support DRM protected channels.
Station engineer "round rooms are standard, tell gateway device manufacturers to go pee in the corner."

JeebusWhatIsThat
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Re: Encryption

Post by JeebusWhatIsThat »

It's happened here in the Portland Metro area, three of the stations have flipped DRM on. Fox, NBC, and PBS. Oddly/Ironically enough, my 2 year old Samsung TV has no problems with the ATSC 3.0 DRM, I would have thought the implementation on the TV would be so out of date that it wouldn't work.

I'm not mentioning the TV as a if Samsung can do it, why can't SiliconDust. They're two totally different implementations, one is a TV, the other is a gateway device. Just thought it was surprising that the TV even worked.

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nickk
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Re: Encryption

Post by nickk »

JeebusWhatIsThat wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:50 am It's happened here in the Portland Metro area, three of the stations have flipped DRM on. Fox, NBC, and PBS.
PBS? Let me check... what is the Device ID of your HDHomeRun?

anonymouse
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Re: Encryption

Post by anonymouse »

JeebusWhatIsThat wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:50 am It's happened here in the Portland Metro area, three of the stations have flipped DRM on. Fox, NBC, and PBS.
No, not PBS, and they (KGW, KPTV, and KPDX) switched over a week ago or so. They had previously been DRM'd until several months when it was switched off. My guess? NFL season and now that that's over...

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