HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

ATSC 3.0 Forum
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nyjklein
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by nyjklein »

nickk wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:25 am ATSC 3.0 audio is fully supported on Windows with the HDHomeRun app. No codec pack required.
ATSC 3.0 video requires the Microsoft HEVC Video Extensions (codec) which is $0.99 from Microsoft.
Question for nickk on ATSC 3.0 video support and the HDHomerun boxes/apps. Since the first ATSC 3.0 tower went live in NYC about a month ago, I've noticed on my LG TV that two of the DRM encrypted channels are broadcasting in HDR (WNBC in DolbyVision, WCBS in HLG HDR). When HDHomeRun devices can decode DRM, will the apps support DolbyVision and HDR on platforms that can support it, e.g. RoKu?

Jeff

DSperber
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by DSperber »

nickk wrote: Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:25 amATSC 3.0 audio is fully supported on Windows with the HDHomeRun app. No codec pack required.
Wait... are you referring to the cloud-assisted decoding automatically invoked by the Windows app as what you call "fully supported"?

Windows 10 or Windows 11?

Yes, it does work and produce sound and no other codec pack or license is purchase is required. But it's not "locally decoded Ac-4" by a Windows-provided codec. It's the same SD cloud-assisted decoding (downmixed to stereo when it is returned from the cloud) as occurs with HDHR app on other streaming devices and TVs that do not contain their own local AC-4 decoding support.

Isn't this correct?

nickk
Silicondust
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by nickk »

DSperber wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 1:05 pm Yes, it does work and produce sound and no other codec pack or license is purchase is required. But it's not "locally decoded Ac-4" by a Windows-provided codec. It's the same SD cloud-assisted decoding (downmixed to stereo when it is returned from the cloud) as occurs with HDHR app on other streaming devices and TVs that do not contain their own local AC-4 decoding support.
Isn't this correct?
Correct - fully supported on both Windows 10 and 11 utilizing our cloud transcode service. Microsoft doesn't yet offer native AC4 support on Windows or XBox.

DennisFL
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by DennisFL »

Cabal wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 11:38 am
DennisFL wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2023 10:52 am The 2023 version has AC4 audio but no Dolby Vision.
It does not.
This reviewer claims it has AC4

https://youtu.be/2w5yBOO3lpA?si=WGUUTI4X3dVCWVVK

signcarver
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by signcarver »

It doesn't state that... early it mentions only Dolby Digital Plus and atmos. When ac4 is mentioned it is for the Channels App which wouldn't support built in ac4 regardless (nor pass through such as mentioned) as channels "always" supports ac4 as they have built in the modified ffmpeg to handle ac4... in other words in that case it is the app decoding ac4, not the device.

nickk
Silicondust
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by nickk »

Confirming that the 2023 Onn box does not have built in AC4 support.

rcrach
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by rcrach »

Hi Nick,

Going by the Kickstarter photo of the tuner section, SD is using the same Sony dual tuner chip for all four tuners. are there any plans to turn on the ATSC 3 tuner on the two that are currently set as ATSC 1?

nickk
Silicondust
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by nickk »

rcrach wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:45 pm Going by the Kickstarter photo of the tuner section, SD is using the same Sony dual tuner chip for all four tuners. are there any plans to turn on the ATSC 3 tuner on the two that are currently set as ATSC 1?
All production 4K units have two ATSC 3.0/1.0 tuners and two ATSC 1.0 tuners (different Sony part).

hokietima
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by hokietima »

signcarver wrote: Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:32 am It doesn't state that... early it mentions only Dolby Digital Plus and atmos. When ac4 is mentioned it is for the Channels App which wouldn't support built in ac4 regardless (nor pass through such as mentioned) as channels "always" supports ac4 as they have built in the modified ffmpeg to handle ac4... in other words in that case it is the app decoding ac4, not the device.
Yes the Channels App does AC4 decoding and outputs AC3 to my receiver (see HUD data below), but my understanding of the HDHomeRun products which I've been using since the beginning is the design of the device is not to perform any decoding, but just take in the RF signal and output the native streams through ethernet. It's up to the client devices to do what they want with the video and audio streams. This is the use case that brought me to the HDHomeRun products in the first place. It does one thing - stream the TV video and audio on my network and I can use any software I want to view and record. Unfortunately DRM has thrown a wrench into things that limits the applications to ones that are certified to handle DRM. Heck it even took some time to get AC3 decoding working on HTPCs back in the day, so we are revisiting history with AC4. Anyone remember fighting AC3FILTER on Windows? AC3 on Linux was also fun at the beginning.

We even had a DRM scare when ATSC 1.0 first came out. I still have an early PCI ATSC 1.0 tuner card released before the first HDHomeRun that claimed not to implement the ATSC 1.0 DRM stuff. Perhaps, I fell for the hype and bought one but the ATSC 1.0 DRM really wasn't implemented by the broadcasters like they are with ATSC 3.0.

FYI here is the Channels HUD Audio data on a ATSC 3.0 Channel:
Audio: ac4 (AC-4)
Channels: 6. Format: floatp
Sample Rate: 46034 Hz
Bitrate: 186 kbps
Audio Driver: Default

ogboot
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by ogboot »

[removed by moderator - see forum rules]

lovekeiiy
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by lovekeiiy »

The problem is not just Silicondust, but all external TV turners like Silicondust. TVs work fine because they have the hardware decoder.

From what I've read, there's an issue with being able to connect/talk to the servers with the DRM keys for devices like this. It's all on the the company that runs the keys.

And yes, it's a load of BS because the powers that be think the DRM keys will really prevent piracy of content. Like everything else, it'll only be a matter of time before that is broke/hacked. If they really want to reduce it, make it more accessible and affordable so there isn't a incentive or need.

danieljlevine
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by danieljlevine »

So believe from a semi-recent post after meeting with the A3SA SD changed tack slightly to get a DRM approvable box into our hands by demonstrating the capability to the A3SA using a JAVA-enabled end point to view live DRM broadcasts to get a win in this space. Sorry if I butchered up the real plan, but this was my impression.

Assuming I am close to right on the above, is there a timeline that can be shared regarding when you’d show the capability to A3SA for feedback/approval? When might consumers be able to try it?

—Dan

nickk
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by nickk »

danieljlevine wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 10:43 am So believe from a semi-recent post after meeting with the A3SA SD changed tack slightly to get a DRM approvable box into our hands by demonstrating the capability to the A3SA using a JAVA-enabled end point to view live DRM broadcasts to get a win in this space. Sorry if I butchered up the real plan, but this was my impression.
No.

danieljlevine
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by danieljlevine »

Thanks for setting me straight. So what is the plan and is there some sort of timeline?

anonymouse
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Re: HDHomeRun 4K is Nextgen TV Certified

Post by anonymouse »

danieljlevine wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 8:02 pm Thanks for setting me straight. So what is the plan and is there some sort of timeline?
Plan: viewtopic.php?t=78888

Timeline: none

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