Encryption

[NedS]

A3SA also doesn't know if you are watching live vs a recording if within a day or two of when it was recorded.

So they are going to change keys every few days, and the app will have to send the recording date to a3sa to make sure it gets the proper key, which will make expiration of playback rights easy to implement and enforce.

Frankly, the more I see of this the less interested I become. I hope that SD will always indicate in the config GUI or its app which channels are "protected" so that I can easily avoid watching and recording them. I'll stick to 1.0 channels and unencrypted 3.0 channels as long as they are available, and if/when there are no more such channels, I will abandon OTA altogether, and just get my TV entirely over the internet.

Using decryption requests to monitor viewing habits would be wildly inaccurate for any broadcaster, as the bulk of the ATSC 3.0 receivers are TV sets, and those can decrypt without an internet connection. So while not impossible to have some form of data, it would be fairly useless data limited to only certain devices, with certain protocols.

[Cabal]

limited to only certain devices, with certain protocols.

Being able to slice up your data is new ways is something that data analysts love. I imagine broadcasters employ a few. Claiming that they're going to throw this data out the window seems like wishful thinking.

[gtb]

limited to only certain devices, with certain protocols.

Being able to slice up your data is new ways is something that data analysts love. I imagine broadcasters employ a few. Claiming that they're going to throw this data out the window seems like wishful thinking.

There is the well known cartoon originally published in The New Yorker magazine in 1993, whose caption was "On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog". Today, on the Internet, everyone knows you are a dog, as well as what mix or pure breed you are, what kind of biscuits you like, how often you go for a walk and where, who you bark at, and where your favorite tree and fire hydrants are. There is no piece of data that cannot be used to contribute to a better understanding of what you are, and what you do, and what you think, and what you want (and how to keep you engaged so you keep seeing more ads). We are long past the days when even partial data cannot be monetized, and if it can be, someone will collect it, and someone will figure out how to use it.

[nblair5]

There is no piece of data that cannot be used to contribute to a better understanding of what you are, and what you do, and what you think, and what you want (and how to keep you engaged so you keep seeing more ads). We are long past the days when even partial data cannot be monetized, and if it can be, someone will collect it, and someone will figure out how to use it.

That's only mostly true. There is another option besides trying to deny them data, you can pollute your data. Neither is highly effective, but as an engineer, I'd rather deal with a sparse data set than an unreliable data set every time. At the very least, you increase the cost of interpreting your data.
https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... b-history/

You could set up some scripts to tune the device for just the last 10 minutes of movies and just the pregame shows for live sports, and let the marketing wizards earn their money figuring out what kind of lunatic you are and what products you might be interested in.

[zippy]

maybe the lunacy is going to all that trouble just to prevent something from knowing I watch green acres and the jack benny show.

[bobchase]

Using decryption requests to monitor viewing habits would be wildly inaccurate for any broadcaster, as the bulk of the ATSC 3.0 receivers are TV sets, and those can decrypt without an internet connection. So while not impossible to have some form of data, it would be fairly useless data limited to only certain devices, with certain protocols.

Even using the internet version of DRM/Encrypt the location information is problematic. While testing encryption, my location would show up as being located in Mesa (13 miles east), Glendale (20 miles NW), Tucson (100 miles SSE), and occasionally over in California. The data that was collected showed where my TV's connected to the internet via Cox Communications, not my street address. Today's TV's don't even have an onboard zip code field to report, let alone a street address.

And to make the paranoid types even more paranoid, there is an app that is called either "the broadcasters app" or "Hello World" that is broadcast by some stations and/or groups. It adds an on-screen menu to your TV when it runs on the station that you are watching. It also uses the ISP location as its basis for reporting.

[MikeBear]

I absolutely couldn't care LESS whether or not the providers know what I watch, when I watch! I record everything, and watch later anyway. Most of what I watch is old stuff, because most of the new shows are pure crap, and not worth bothering with.

[NedS]

limited to only certain devices, with certain protocols.

Being able to slice up your data is new ways is something that data analysts love. I imagine broadcasters employ a few. Claiming that they're going to throw this data out the window seems like wishful thinking.

I think they'll have more useful ways to collect data from internet-connected ATSC 3.0 TV sets, and they'll have so much of that data, that getting our gateway data (a smaller market share of tuners) from the authentication servers might not be worth the effort. I don't know any of this for sure, of course. It's just a guess on my part.

All that being said, it's still a fair concern. Maybe A3SA will be open to a formal privacy policy regarding the authentication server data, so we can at least get them on the record about it?

Not to get on a soap box, but all of this is why the US needs better consumer privacy laws on the books. It shouldn't be up to the companies to decide. Be it the broadcaster, the streaming box manufacturer, even us (Silicondust).

[zippy]

I don't wear a tin foil hat, so I'm only interested in how the SD iimplementation of encryption is going.

[xmguy]

WUXP RF 21's, WTVF 3.0 signal just went encrypted too for Nashville.

[tjp]

All HDHomeRun ATSC 3.0 tuners (CONNECT 4K, SCRIBE 4K, and FLEX 4K) will soon have DRM support.

OK, it's almost June now. Still no DRM support? What gives?

[Beerman]

Looking forward to 3.0 with no encryption but I'm done talking about leaving Cox. This weekend, I say goodbye to TV and phone and as soon as AT&T fiber is ready (weeks), I'm gone for good. They nickel and dime me to death and I think they'll be a shell of themselves in 3-5 years. Streaming doesn't seem to be slowing down much as companies pit against each other but my concern is how much and how fast they are increasing prices.
Youtube TV is pretty good but already seeing faster increases.
I know SD is doing all they can to get DRM checked off their list but I wish it would have been much sooner.

[nickk]

All HDHomeRun ATSC 3.0 tuners (CONNECT 4K, SCRIBE 4K, and FLEX 4K) will soon have DRM support.

OK, it's almost June now. Still no DRM support? What gives?

A3SA has yet to deliver an important API needed. We are chasing them up each week.

[KingdomeCome]

Channels has now twice explicitly stated that they are not going to provide a protected path solution.  And two "No's" in a row is strongly indicative of their plans.  While they clearly can choose to change their approach at any time, they have not indicated they plan to do so by any public statement.

They clearly stated it wasn't cost effective for them to implement the CableLabs solution. And judging by the lack of success SD has had implementing it and for all intents and purposes, bailing on it, in retrospect Channels Devs made a wise decision in not going that route. On top of it, they innovated, developed and *delivered* a solution that actually endeded up being a much better solution for many people (TVE integration).

On top of it, nickk/neds has stated that the requirements for ATSC3 encryption are nowhere near as onerous as the cable DRM solution and thus should be much more implementable by third party apps. Time will tell if that's true.

Again, you can spout all the technical mumbo jumbo you want, but acting as if Channels should be committing to something that's still being cobbled together / negotiated by the hardware manufacture (SD) and the ATSC standards committee is totally disingenuous.

[removed by moderator - see forum rules]

[ChesterCat]

In Las Vegas ABC Channel 13.1 has now encrypted. No other stations have as far as I can see. Just happened last night as yesterday I was watching it. Please get decryption work as soon as possible. I will also be sending a complaint to them.