ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

ATSC 3.0 Forum
Nounours
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:22 pm
x 1

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by Nounours »

CBme wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:26 pm
Nounours wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:05 pm Just wanted to share my findings regarding some tests I've done over the weekend with KOMO (104.1) and KIRO (107.1) using the HDHomeRun 4K.

I setup a cheap omnidirectional antenna in my car (still need to figure out a way to securely set it up outside to the rack), and connected the HDHomeRun 4K tuner directly to my laptop. Then my wife and I took a drive around to see if she could actually watch TV on the road.

Long story short, it seems to work rather well, even on the highway at 60mph and I bet getting the antenna up on the roof will likely work even better. I wonder if some day cars and mobile homes might have ATSC3.0-based entertainment built-in for their passengers to enjoy. :)

Anyways, I had an unrelated question for all of you: I'm seeing a discrepancy between 104.1 and 107.1 in terms of signal quality and symbol quality, both on the road and at home. Note that the signal strength and SNR are the same, but KOMO seemed to consistently have a higher signal quality and symbol quality than KIRO. Aren't they broadcasted from the same antenna and frequency?

Thank you in advance.
Nice to see additional validation that the signal is less fragile as promised. I could see it being a nice add-on for a RVs but I really don't see it being an add-in car manufacturers putting anything in. At most, an aftermarket option.
As for 104 & 107, they are both part of Ch24 so they are the same tower and same frequency. No idea why you are seeing something different for them on the device. I checked earlier today and both were acting strange as the signal quality was poor and the lock was dropping but I just checked and they are both back to be solid at 100% for all metrics at my house.
Thanks for checking. FWIW, I was told by an broadcast engineer yesterday that while the signal comes from the same antenna and frequency, ATSC3.0 permits sub-channels to use different channel redundancy settings, so maybe that could explain the differences I'm seeing.

mackulla
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:37 pm

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021 50 miles north

Post by mackulla »

First great tuner 1.0 I am seeing station that I don't always see. I at Oak harbor, and for the first time, I get all the networks. The thing is the new and improved 3.0 is not being received at all and when I single out 24 and 31 on the HD tuner 0 and 1. I get a signal strength of about 65% and no lock. Any ideas?

CBme
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:15 pm
x 15

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021 50 miles north

Post by CBme »

mackulla wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:42 pm First great tuner 1.0 I am seeing station that I don't always see. I at Oak harbor, and for the first time, I get all the networks. The thing is the new and improved 3.0 is not being received at all and when I single out 24 and 31 on the HD tuner 0 and 1. I get a signal strength of about 65% and no lock. Any ideas?
Few standard q's.
-Is the device running the latest firmware? 20210118 - Check at update on the device http://hdhomerun.local/system.html
-How is the signal strength and quality on 1.0 stations in Seattle like 4 and 5
-What is your antenna set-up and where is pointing?
-Do you have an amplifier on (if so try turning it off or removing if it doesn't have passthrough to see how that affects things as some amps can make things worse)

Note that 3.0 isn't 'new and improved' in terms of distance at which you can receive the signal, just in terms of things like maintaining it if you have have some interference from something like swaying trees, and for multipath issues. But if you are getting Seattle channels, you should be able to get these.

kinisonkhan
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:49 am
x 1

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by kinisonkhan »

New user here. Just got the Connect 4K up and running (alongside my HDHR Prime). A few questions.

I take it KOMO 104.1 and KIRO 107.1 are the only 4K stations broadcasting right now? Everyone else appears to be 1080p. I have an outdoor antenna mounted inside, but need to wait for a friend to stop by and drill a hole for me to run coax out to the deck so I can properly mount it.

Loading up 104.1 or 107.1 seems to take a very long time in Kodi. With VLC, its much faster, but VLC isnt my preferred client.

KOMO 104.1, no sound at all. Tried it on Raspberry Pi 4 (Kodi), VLC (nVidia Shield 2nd gen) and the default HDHR app (Windows & Android). I assume this is normal for a new station? They just started broadcasting recently, so in time they'll fix this? Normal KOMO 4.1 and its sub stations work fine.

mackulla
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:37 pm

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021 50 miles north

Post by mackulla »

CBme wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:13 pm
mackulla wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:42 pm First great tuner 1.0 I am seeing station that I don't always see. I at Oak harbor, and for the first time, I get all the networks. The thing is the new and improved 3.0 is not being received at all and when I single out 24 and 31 on the HD tuner 0 and 1. I get a signal strength of about 65% and no lock. Any ideas?
Few standard q's.
-Is the device running the latest firmware? 20210118 - Check at update on the device http://hdhomerun.local/system.html
-How is the signal strength and quality on 1.0 stations in Seattle like 4 and 5
-What is your antenna set-up and where is pointing?
-Do you have an amplifier on (if so try turning it off or removing if it doesn't have passthrough to see how that affects things as some amps can make things worse)

Note that 3.0 isn't 'new and improved' in terms of distance at which you can receive the signal, just in terms of things like maintaining it if you have have some interference from something like swaying trees, and for multipath issues. But if you are getting Seattle channels, you should be able to get these.
"Great questions, I did all the upgrades yesterday before my post and data gathering with PC config gui app. I am using a DAT BOSS LR Mix Antenna (onboard amp) and pointing as close to Queen Ann hill as possible. These numbers were taken with the above app. For comparison, I think that (two ridges) King numbers being from Queen Ann and near the same frequency, chan 24 and 25 make my case. King 25 1.0 numbers are 92/54/100 Signal strength/signal quality/symbol quality, Channel 24 is identified as 3.0 and not locked 65/31/0. As a Capitol Hill reference, LOS KIRO on 18 is 100/91/100. "

CBme
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:15 pm
x 15

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by CBme »

kinisonkhan wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:01 am New user here. Just got the Connect 4K up and running (alongside my HDHR Prime). A few questions.

I take it KOMO 104.1 and KIRO 107.1 are the only 4K stations broadcasting right now? Everyone else appears to be 1080p. I have an outdoor antenna mounted inside, but need to wait for a friend to stop by and drill a hole for me to run coax out to the deck so I can properly mount it.

Loading up 104.1 or 107.1 seems to take a very long time in Kodi. With VLC, its much faster, but VLC isnt my preferred client.

KOMO 104.1, no sound at all. Tried it on Raspberry Pi 4 (Kodi), VLC (nVidia Shield 2nd gen) and the default HDHR app (Windows & Android). I assume this is normal for a new station? They just started broadcasting recently, so in time they'll fix this? Normal KOMO 4.1 and its sub stations work fine.
I'd recommend to read back through this abbreviated thread (it was chopped from the original Seattle thread which you can also read). Also read some of the others like the ac-4 thread as all these questions are answered as well as a number of other ones you will be have.

To quickly address them,
- FFmpeg does not support AC-4 audio current so Kodi, Plex, VLC etc etc will not work for now. You need use the HDHR player on devices that support AC-4 in a TS for audio to work.
- ATSC 3.0 broadcasts are on CH24 & 31. CH24: 104, 107,151 CH31: 105, 113, 116, 122, They are broadcast from essentially the same location so if you get one you should get the other.
- The HD atsc 1.0 channels are 720p or 1080i. There are no 1080p 1.0 channels. For ATSC 3 broadcasts, only 105 and 116 are 1080p.
- Ensure you have the latest firmware update on your device. 20210118
Last edited by CBme on Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

CBme
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:15 pm
x 15

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021 50 miles north

Post by CBme »

mackulla wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:20 pm "Great questions, I did all the upgrades yesterday before my post and data gathering with PC config gui app. I am using a DAT BOSS LR Mix Antenna (onboard amp) and pointing as close to Queen Ann hill as possible. These numbers were taken with the above app. For comparison, I think that (two ridges) King numbers being from Queen Ann and near the same frequency, chan 24 and 25 make my case. King 25 1.0 numbers are 92/54/100 Signal strength/signal quality/symbol quality, Channel 24 is identified as 3.0 and not locked 65/31/0. As a Capitol Hill reference, LOS KIRO on 18 is 100/91/100. "
You seem to be referring to an image that didn't make it into the post. But from your comments you have a solid antenna, pointed the right direction and reception of similar frequency of 1.0 channels from the same area is strong. So it certainly seems like it should work for you. 24 can be more problematic given the PLP cacophony but should still work and but 31 should lock pretty quickly.
So other than turning off the amp, if possible, to see what happens and ensuring you bypass any splitters and remove any filters you might have on the line, I don't have any other ideas. Hopefully someone else here will have some more advanced tips or tricks to aid your troubleshooting.

jaysauls
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:24 am
x 1

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by jaysauls »

Something has changed, I've lost the ability to tune KONG (116.1), KING (105.1), KCPQ (113.1) or KZJO (122.1). Basically everything on physical channel 31 is busted.

All give this error:

"Unable to play channel: No video data"

KOMO/KIRO are still working (on physical channel 24), but KUNS, also on 24, seems busted as well.

nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 16655
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am
x 103

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by nickk »

jaysauls wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:46 pm Something has changed, I've lost the ability to tune KONG (116.1), KING (105.1), KCPQ (113.1) or KZJO (122.1). Basically everything on physical channel 31 is busted.

All give this error:

"Unable to play channel: No video data"

KOMO/KIRO are still working (on physical channel 24), but KUNS, also on 24, seems busted as well.
If you get me a format=dbg capture I will take a look...

http://hdhomerun.local:5004/auto/v116.1 ... uration=60

(replace hdhomerun with the device ID if you have more than one HDHomeRun)

Nick

jaysauls
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:24 am
x 1

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by jaysauls »

Thanks Nick.

See if this link works:


https://1drv.ms/u/s!AqYoKzjG8sgwrs4bRaP6QMOhdciQqQ

nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 16655
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am
x 103

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by nickk »

Broadcast looks to be busted - not seeing any audio or video tracks on any channels.

jaysauls
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:24 am
x 1

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by jaysauls »

Thanks for looking. I'll check tomorrow when everybody is back in the office to see if they clean it up.

CBme
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:15 pm
x 15

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by CBme »

nickk wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:51 pm Broadcast looks to be busted - not seeing any audio or video tracks on any channels.
Looks like they busted something again, same as they did on the 15th that didn't get fixed until the 19th. I dropped v105.1 on ch31 on to my share for you to double check but it looks to be the same sized file as Jay's 116 capture.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ap22nCAxKBS7j-Jr9Q8 ... w?e=nOUzNk

jmcgeejr
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:00 pm
x 1

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by jmcgeejr »

jaysauls wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:46 pm Something has changed, I've lost the ability to tune KONG (116.1), KING (105.1), KCPQ (113.1) or KZJO (122.1). Basically everything on physical channel 31 is busted.

All give this error:

"Unable to play channel: No video data"

KOMO/KIRO are still working (on physical channel 24), but KUNS, also on 24, seems busted as well.
Same here, just so you dont think it's your setup :D

jmcgeejr
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:00 pm
x 1

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by jmcgeejr »

What I'm still shocked is that we're this far in and the audio is still wonky. Tried to watch the Chiefs vs Bills, center channel was coming out of the left speaker, every once in a while it would pop to the center and sound good and then it would immediately go back. The image quality was superb though.

Post Reply