Video errors even with great signal?

Reception, channel detection, network issues, CableCARD setup, etc.
RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

I am in an area that is about 2.2 miles away from a full power station WJAC and now LP station WTOO. They actually share a transmitter location.

Anyway WJAC is excellent no matter if I use like a cheap $5 antenna or my GE Oro Attic/Outdoor Antenna in my upstairs area of my apartment as I have no access to an attic or a roof.

Anyway WJAC is 100% on all HDHR Config numbers and I got WTOO to be 84-85% dig strength, 94-95% sig quality, 100% symbol quality.

Oddly ffmpeg and TSReader report tons of video errors. TSReader says fine for minutes then random continuity errors and TEI errors.

I could see if I had really bad signal numbers but HDHR config looks great.

ebo
Posts: 574
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:58 pm
Device ID: 1016F746, 101C8CF9, 1041F134, 10532394

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by ebo »

If you're that close to a full power station there's a good chance that its signal is overloading your tuner. If the symbol quality stays at 100% and you don't see reception problems other than the errors reported by ffmpeg and TSReader, then the overload probably isn't too severe and the errors are within the error correction capability. To test this, try padding the antenna signal. A splitter (or several in series) will do that. You'll probably lose good reception of the much weaker station but this is only a test.

Looking up both stations on RabbitEars I see that WJAC has several repeaters including one on channel 22, same as WTOO. However, it too is low power and far enough away that it probably doesn't affect your reception of WTOO.

RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

ebo wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:33 am
If you're that close to a full power station there's a good chance that its signal is overloading your tuner. If the symbol quality stays at 100% and you don't see reception problems other than the errors reported by ffmpeg and TSReader, then the overload probably isn't too severe and the errors are within the error correction capability. To test this, try padding the antenna signal. A splitter (or several in series) will do that. You'll probably lose good reception of the much weaker station but this is only a test.

Looking up both stations on RabbitEars I see that WJAC has several repeaters including one on channel 22, same as WTOO. However, it too is low power and far enough away that it probably doesn't affect your reception of WTOO.
I tried a 3 splitter originally for my other two devices. It seemed less frequent but still there.

WJAC is supposedly moving the channel 22 repeater's channel eventually.

RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

I actually just noticed something that I thought maybe I seen yesterday but wasn't sure.

Every once in a while, Symbol Quality seems like it goes all the way back to 0% or something then shoots back to 100%.

It's one of those things, if you blink, you'll miss it. It doesn't turn red/yellow at all, it just seems the bar vanishes all the way to the left then comes back like nothing happened.

EDIT: Right now I am running the typical 3 splitter that feeds my HDHR and other 2 devices.

To help run the test, instead of the HDHR going on the 3.5dB leg of the 3-splitter as usual, I put it on a 7dB leg and then put it on an extra 2 splitter after that.

It seems like it may have gotten TEI errors faster now though.

I did live watch some stuff the other day and oddly even though ffmpeg said riddled with warnings, I didn't really see anything odd.

Do some stations just send out tons of video errors?

RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

Well that test failed with the 3 and 2 splitters.

Not only did signal quality even though at 79% and strength at 65%, but even signal quality went totally red for some seconds.

EDIT: Yea it's doing it again, I arrived back to my PC with HDHR Config GUI open and Symbol went to red then right back to 100%.

Strange as when I had my $5 & $8 cheap antennas, it seemed the symbol quality never did all that. I can't really win that route though as the $8 one with UHF Loop and RabbitEars barely sees WTOO and my flat $5 one that looks like the end of a hockey stick doesn't give great signal overall but oddly better than the UHF/Rabbit one.

RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

To make life easier, I just hooked my actual adjustable coxial attenutator that I almost forgot I had, on before my 3 splitter.

I figured that may be easier than constantly messing with more splitters.

RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

Well I made some really nice progress now.

I decided to "rescan" the room, to see if there are any better spots that I may have missed.

I found a corner of the room on my desk, that actually points to the left of my west (direction of towers) window. Strangely holding the antenna by the window didn't seem to work as well as in the corner past the window but aimed at the window did.

It seemed that got my signal strength all the way up to 89-91%, signal quality 95-100% (haven't hit that really ever on WTOO), and symbol quality as usual 100%.

It seems now that the signal is so good, it barely drops when I add my 3 splitter.

I still get video errors it seems in my video recordings from MythTV and TSReader. I don't relly understand it because it seems I have an amazing signal now.

RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

I guess I found out the issue thanks to a person contracting me on another forum.

It seems that HC2 Holdings, the channel owner itself is having issues.

They stated how they have two HC2 stations in their DNA and get what appears to be the exact same errors.

They will be fine watching for minutes then signal dropouts then fine again.

They believe HC2 isn't syncing the station to their Internet feeds correctly.

RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

ebo wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:33 am
Looking up both stations on RabbitEars I see that WJAC has several repeaters including one on channel 22, same as WTOO. However, it too is low power and far enough away that it probably doesn't affect your reception of WTOO.
Well, it looks like in the end, this WJAC repeater probably is the actual cultprit.

At first I did figure as I never could pickup Altoona, PA stations at all, let alone WJAC's Altoona translator, that there is no way at all.

But I found a guy in my market that does have issues with it and suggested I try and test possibly if it is.

I noticed randomly that I am getting "blips" of WTAJ on RF Ch 24 and their transmitter is at the exact same spot as WJAC's 22.

RF 24 on the HDHR with the new GE Antenna will be non-visible most of the time in HDHR Config GUI but then show up for like 1-2 seconds then vanish again and continue doing it in a continious loop. (Interesting as before with the cheaper indoor antennas, I never seen WTAJ's signal ever).

Anyway, if WJAC's 22 is doing the same as WTAJ, to me it makes perfect sense as I get video errors for 1-2 seconds at a time in like a burst.

WJAC is moving their 22 translator to Ch 33 and got permission back in Dec, but nobody can find any update as to a timeline.

energyx
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:19 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by energyx »

I've actually noticed this myself over the last few months. I have a Connect and Connect Duo and they both do this. Full signals with no fluctuation and watching on a hardwired PC and video errors that cause brief drops. Not sure if it was a firmware update that introduced it, but something changed.

RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

energyx wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:17 pm
I've actually noticed this myself over the last few months. I have a Connect and Connect Duo and they both do this. Full signals with no fluctuation and watching on a hardwired PC and video errors that cause brief drops. Not sure if it was a firmware update that introduced it, but something changed.
Wow thanks for the info. First time I heard anybody else say something similar to my issue except the one person I did say has issues with 2 HC2 owned stations in his area.

Anyway, I wish there was some way for me to have my HDHR Dual listen on Ch 22 and tell me if it gets more than one PSIP info.

What I mean is, have some program look at the readout from the HDHR and see if possibly gets "WJAC" PSIP info at times when it's tuned to WTOO.

I tried TSReader Lite but it seems to only ever get WTOO's PSIP then stop listening to PSIP info, so I can't see if the HDHR at times picks up WJAC's Ch 22 to prove the interference.

jasonl
Expert
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Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by jasonl »

WJAC's 22 shouldn't even be on the air at all. WTOO is a class A station which gives them priority on the channel and the ability to force WJAC to turn 22 off entirely since it's just a translator and not the main broadcast. You could email engineering@wjactv.com and ask if the channel 22 translator for Altoona is even on the air, since it's possible they shut it off when WTOO went up on 22.

Even if WJAC's 22 was on the air there's no way you'd get a clean enough signal to actually decode PSIP data. WTOO will stomp all over it for anyone who's on the Johnstown side of things. You might get enough of WJAC's 22 signal to interfere, especially if you're getting a bounce off something above the hills (maybe planes going in and out of Johnstown airport?).

Also, who own the Chiefs? :lol:

RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

jasonl wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:12 pm
WJAC's 22 shouldn't even be on the air at all. WTOO is a class A station which gives them priority on the channel and the ability to force WJAC to turn 22 off entirely since it's just a translator and not the main broadcast. You could email engineering@wjactv.com and ask if the channel 22 translator for Altoona is even on the air, since it's possible they shut it off when WTOO went up on 22.

Even if WJAC's 22 was on the air there's no way you'd get a clean enough signal to actually decode PSIP data. WTOO will stomp all over it for anyone who's on the Johnstown side of things. You might get enough of WJAC's 22 signal to interfere, especially if you're getting a bounce off something above the hills (maybe planes going in and out of Johnstown airport?).

Also, who own the Chiefs? :lol:
Oddly back in Dec they applied to move to Ch 33 for the extender due to WTOO, yet have never moved it.

So other viewers noticed it's still beaming out at Ch 22 even now.

I noticed WTAJ Ch 24 from the same site does come in at times to get PSIP but it takes like 15 min sometimes to get it but other times right away. That's why I figured if I can "see" WTAJ, maybe WJAC-22 makes it through.

A fellow DMA viewer said the 22 translator seems to go way further than expected in to Centre County and it cancel's another DMA's 22 for him and WTOO.

EDIT: Actually RabbitEars seems to show the WJAC-22 easily can hit my place and WTOO's transmitter site even more.

RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

Just a small update.

As of Sat Apr 18th, WJAC-22 is still broadcasting.

So that's two Ch 22 transmitters in the DMA.

RedPenguin
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm

Re: Video errors even with great signal?

Post by RedPenguin »

Just a quick question.

If it for a fact 100% is the WJAC-22 interfering with WTOO-22, is there anything that can be done to fix it besides waiting possibly months or longer for WJAC-22 to move to RF 33?

I noticed that amplifying the signal obviously doesn't help but also nor does attenuating the signal seem to help either.

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