KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Reception, channel detection, network issues, CableCARD setup, etc.
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Dragonwyntir
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KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by Dragonwyntir » Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:44 pm

Hello All,

I don't do a ton of recordings on the RECORD engine and DVR (in a TWC/Charter area so most everything is still Copy Once), but if it is Copy Freely, I use RECORD engine and DVR for recordings. I've noticed that recently, my recordings of Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. have lots of tiling in the recordings. After three weeks of that, I figured I would investigate. I just pulled up KVUE to see if the tiling exists (it does) and what the tuner stats are at this moment:

Virtual Channel 3 KVUE1
Frequency 141.000 MHz
Program Number 2
Authorization subscribed
CCI Protection unrestricted
Modulation Lock qam256
PCR Lock locked
Signal Strength 100% (4.6 dBmV)
Signal Quality 100% (35.8 dB)
Symbol Quality 100%
Streaming Rate 11.265 Mbps

(I refreshed this dozens of times, both in a row and also over the span of a few minutes, and the results always show three 100% marks with slight changes in the respective numbers for signal strength & quality, and of course variable streaming rates).

Seems like that should be enough to avoid tiling, no? I haven't noticed it at all on any other channels. The tiling (this might be overly obvious) happens much more noticeably when there is lots of motion on-screen. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

signcarver
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Re: KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by signcarver » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:26 pm

If the strength was much higher, I would look at attenuating it a bit as with SD's tuners I typically don't like seeing 100% strength but with a prime you can gauge a bit better (a prime should handle up to +10dBmV without issue).

I would first do a network packet test to try and see if anything shows up there. Also turn on sending of diagnostics data on the tuners as well as the app. SD can then look at such if you provide your DeviceID.

You probably will need to capture a 30 second clip (preferably from during prime time/abc programming when the issue is occuring) and post it somewhere (you may wish to wait for someone from SD to ask for such and pm them the link, but I would love to see such) ... my understanding that station is 1080i but ABC content is 720p, compound that with whatever your cable system is doing for recompression may make it entirely on them, or the station... the bit rate is about 1.5-2x what I normally see for a 720p channel but on par with what I might see with a 1080i channel (my understanding is the station does transmit abc content as 720p but that information may be outdated and changed)... it may just be your hardware/platform when it comes to deinterlacing content (particularly content that was never meant to be interlaced/scaled to begin with).

jasonl
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Re: KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by jasonl » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:21 pm

What device are you watching on? If it's a computer, what video card?

Is the tiling primarily occurring only in the parts of the screen with the most motion?

Wondering if it's the NVIDIA decoder bug. I think KVUE might have been one of the stations affected.

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Dragonwyntir
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Re: KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by Dragonwyntir » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:19 pm

Hi Jason,

I primarily watch on the Xbox One app using my Xbox One X, which is where I noticed it (I think that's an AMD card equivalent on their SoC). When I did my most recent testing, I moved over to my PC so I could refresh the stats page while watching both it and the HDHR app. My PC does have an Nvidia card in it (GTX 760). I also was able to see the tiling in the Android app (Samsung Galaxy S8) when I replayed the most recent recording that exhibited the issue.

Tiling definitely seems to occur mostly in the areas with motion - when the scenes in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. are slow or just headshots with dialog, you can almost forget it is happening.

jasonl
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Re: KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by jasonl » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:30 pm

Not the NVIDIA issue then.

Can you enable the sending of diagnostic data on the HDHomeRun (see viewtopic.php?f=15&t=69066) and record something from ABC, confirm it has the issue, and reply back with the device ID for your HDHomeRun so we can check and see if the device reported any issues.

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Dragonwyntir
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Re: KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by Dragonwyntir » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:00 pm

Model: HDHR3-CC
Device ID: 1327B9CE
Firmware: 20190621

Just flipped on diagnostic logging, and started recording The Batchelorette which is airing now. I remoted into a VM I have hosted at home to kick this recording off (I'm away with work this week, back at home Friday), so it is tough to tell if the tiling is showing right now. Given my testing the other day, it is safe to assume the tiling will be present as it happens regularly (meaning every few seconds, never resolving for more than a minute in a best case).

jasonl
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Re: KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by jasonl » Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:05 pm

Looks OK so far. Once it completes, can you upload the recording somewhere (Google Drive, Dropbox, iCloud, OneDrive, etc.) and email a link to support at silicondust dot com along with a link to this thread so we know what it is? We'd like to take a look at it here and see if we also see the tiling.

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Dragonwyntir
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Re: KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by Dragonwyntir » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:16 am

Hi Jason,

Trying to capture an episode that isn't a full episode (I have one that's a full 4GB, but that probably isn't helpful) - I can't seem to figure out how to stop a recording in the new UI?

jasonl
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Re: KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by jasonl » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:04 pm

It isn't possible to stop something that's in progress. The easiest option is to start a recording a few minutes before the show ends and let it end normally.

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Re: KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by Dragonwyntir » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:01 pm

Jason,

I captured a video and uploaded it. I'm emailing you the details.

Cheers!

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Dragonwyntir
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Re: KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by Dragonwyntir » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:13 pm

Hi Jason,

Any progress on this? Agents of SHIELD was almost unwatchable at parts from this past Friday.

Thanks!

jasonl
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Re: KVUE (ABC Affiliate) has tiling during programming

Post by jasonl » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:17 pm

Something the station's encoder is doing is generating streams that do not decode properly on hardware decoders for some reason. It's the NVIDIA problem, but apparently KVUE has somehow managed to make it even worse to the point that it gets corrupted on non-NVIDIA devices as well (I even saw a bit of corruption on a MiBox and a FireTV, though not nearly as bad as on NVIDIA). Unfortunately there really aren't any good options for fixing this on the client side. The video decodes properly with software decoders, but using a software decoder necessarily means a big hit in quality, especially on 1080i channels, so it's not like we just want to switch everyone over because a handful of stations are messing things up. Whatever they're doing it happening at a low enough level that I can't identify the specific problem with any of the tools I have access to, which means there's likely no way for the app to identify affected streams automatically and switch the decoder, so we're kind of at an impasse.

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