ATSC 3.0 Internet Streams

[kingcoldcuts]

I posted this to the Las Vegas HDTV thread on AVSforum.com 2 days ago. Might be of some value to those reading the thread here, as well.

Went down a rabbit hole today. Might be playing catch-up on things that are already well known, but are new to me, especially regarding these "internet only" Virtual Broadband IP Channels:

1. Here's some press related to the KVVU OTT signal. It refers to Run3TV, and HDR with Dolby Vision.

2. Here's the Run3TV website. It is a spin-off from PEARL, and "is an advanced TV web platform for broadcasters, leveraging NEXTGEN TV’s ATSC 3.0 A/344 Interactive Broadcast Standard." In other words, OTT, interactive broadcasts.

3. Here is a video, uploaded to Vimeo 4 months ago and linked from the official Run3TV website. I don't know how old the production of this video actually is. What I do know is KTNV 13 ABC in Las Vegas is prominently featured throughout. Is KTNV also broadcasting an OTT signal?

4. This press release from April 12, 2024 mentions A3FA - "The broadcast group investors will lead the funding to accelerate the commercial launch of the ATSC 3.0 Framework Authority (A3FA), the driving force behind the RUN3TV platform." Anyone know if this is unique to OTT broadcasts, as in an additional governing set of standards on top of A3SA?

5. This press release about about WRAZ in Raleigh, NC adding HDR to its broadcasts led me to Advanced HDR by Technicolor, which has the logos for KTNV and KSNV on their website. Interesting.

I'm sure there is more to come surrounding this, but right now, I'd just like to know if any of you are watching these broadcasts? I don't own a TV or STB that can tune DRM'd channels, or IP based channels. How is the picture quality? The articles state KVVU is broadcasting their entire slate of programming in Dolby Vision HDR. Does that include their NFL football games? It has to, right? They would be scaling SDR to DV HDR in order to achieve that wall-to-wall, right?

I will be purchasing a new TV this year, and if these virtual channels in Las Vegas are sending HDR and Atmos, I will be sure to buy something that tunes them in.

Looking forward to hearing what you guys are seeing. Thanks!

[nickk]

The broadcast announced broadband delivered KVVU ATSC 3.0 channel in Las Vegas is carrying full content including NFL games.

[danieljlevine]

Would the initial internet streams capability be a HDHR 4K Flex firmware upgrade, app upgrade, or both?

The reason I ask is because I’m still waiting to see the December (or was it November) 2024 software app update to come to Android and FireTV stores to address an audio pass through issue I had reported. Can anyone verify that I am not in the wrong here for the current app status?

[xmguy]

Adding my 2 cents in. I am in the Nashville, TN DMA. I lose WNPT (PBS) at night. But with the WNPT-VC channel I can get it via other boxes. Internet streaming channels would be a great thing to offer.

[kingcoldcuts]

Las Vegas:

Channel 133.35 has popped up. No sound. Video appears to show promos for Tennis, Pickleball TV, and Nebraska Public Television on repeat.

I assume this is NOT related to the virtual streaming channels, and is something CES related?

Thanks!

KCC

[nickk]

Las Vegas:

Channel 133.35 has popped up. No sound. Video appears to show promos for Tennis, Pickleball TV, and Nebraska Public Television on repeat.

I assume this is NOT related to the virtual streaming channels, and is something CES related?

I will check (I will be at CES next week)

[theseer2]

For the Vegas 3.0 channels, is the sound suposed to be lower volume than the regular channels?

[kingcoldcuts]

For the Vegas 3.0 channels, is the sound suposed to be lower volume than the regular channels?

Do you mean in regards to the ATSC 3.0 internet streams? Or generally?

I don't think the volume is supposed to be lower, regardless. What kind of equipment are you using to watch and listen to the ATSC 3.0 broadcasts?

[theseer2]

HDHR and the Apple TV app and Channels. Channel 3 and 8 and 33

[kingcoldcuts]

HDHR and the Apple TV app and Channels. Channel 3 and 8 and 33

Is it an Apple TV streaming device? Or did you mean to type "app"? The set top box (STB) and the app are different things.

If it is an Apple TV STB, is it the 4K version? Which generation is it? Is it connected directly to the TV? Or is it connected to an AVR receiver? Is there an AVR receiver in the equation at all?

What we're trying to determine is the codec capabilities of each device in the chain. ATSC 3.0 sends Dolby AC-4 audio along with the video, but very few electronics on the market today support it natively. If you use the HDHR app to watch ATSC 3.0 channels, and the device doesn't decode AC-4 natively, the audio is sent to a transcoding server operated by SiliconDust.

All my devices are connected directly to an AVR over HDMI 2.0b. None of the AVRs support AC-4 natively, so the audio feed has to be transcoded. I haven't personally noticed any differences in volume levels, but I have noticed significantly different channel separation when the feed comes from SD's transcoder versus ATSC 1.0 audio. I can't speak to how Channels is sending the audio as I don't have any experience with it.

Long story short, the audio feeds for ATSC 3.0 channels isn't lower by design. It's just kind of complicated as support catches up - if it ever does.

[kingcoldcuts]

Las Vegas:

Channel 133.35 has popped up. No sound. Video appears to show promos for Tennis, Pickleball TV, and Nebraska Public Television on repeat.

I assume this is NOT related to the virtual streaming channels, and is something CES related?

Thanks!

KCC

Quick follow up - still no sound. I am assuming there isn't any sound on the broadcast? Picture is >17mbps, so I'm assuming 4K. It looks fantastic, but was clearly shot using gear with this purpose in mind, and heavily processed in post.

[danieljlevine]

It would be great if there was something that provided a roadmap of features being pursued and the order the approximate expected month/quarter/year of implementation like other similar products. For DRM, I realize there is an approval issue stopping progress. But it’s not clear to me when to expect other features to get implemented. This topic (virtual internet streams) being one of them. It sounded like earlier in this thread that the priority in this as getting bumped up. I would have expected that there’d be some movement, since this sounded pretty simple when being discussed by SD. So I assume SD is working on other more pressing items, but I don’t know what those are either. So a roadmap of features and when one could expect them would be useful to me. Then I wouldn’t have to keep asking “are we there yet?”

Do I just not know where the roadmap is? I have seen the thread with the DRM plans which is pretty detailed and sets my expectations pretty well on DRM. But can overall list thread would also be useful to me to know what features are missing but plan to implement, what ones you are working on, and how much estimated effort it’ll take to develop them (i.e. a timeframe for seeing the feature as a user) and perhaps whether you need approval to turn a feature on, like DRM.

[anonymouse]

Then I wouldn’t have to keep asking “are we there yet?”

My experience has been that when we are there, SD is the first to let us know :p

[danieljlevine]

Still some kind of list of features and a roadmap that gets updated would be nice.

[danieljlevine]

I’m noticing some recent HDHR app updates that mention MDU. I’m not an ATSC 3.0 expert, but after poking around, I think MDU is related to implementing what this thread was requesting. Is this understanding correct? Or are you just fixing a problem with an existing capability in the HDHR app?

If this MDU-related update brings us closer to seeing ATSC 3.0 Internet Streams, maybe you could say how much more work remains before I might see channels like T2 get discovered by my HDHR Flex 4K, where I’d find them in my channel listing, and whether I’d need to rescan to find such channels.