DRM off?

[AlbumMan]

I did a channel rescan this morning and was surprised to see our NBC and CBS stations did not have the word DRM in the station list. I removed them from the blocked list and they both play great on the onn Google 4k box. From there, I decided to add the HDHR app back to my TCL Google TV (previously removed when it would not play the local ABC HDR10 station) to test and the TV now plays these two. Hope it's not a fluke they disabled DRM but I have my doubts. The HDR10+ and Dolby Atmos logo now appears on the CBS station!

Nickk, if you're reading this, do you remember me asking about the TCL 55QM5K that would not play our "then" only non-DRM HDR10 station? It would tune but immediately freeze; pause about 10 seconds then refresh and freeze again. You then bought that model to test and I forgot exactly what you said (the thread has been deleted) but seem to recall you saying you blocked the codec ?? here. While NBC and CBS have their DRM off this morning, I'm wondering why these stations play fine on the TV w/app but the original station does not. Diags are turned on for 10AB6A18 if interested. Thanks for any info.

[nickk]

Interesting!

Can you please enable "send diagnostic information" from within the app itself on the TCL. I see logs from the device and HDHomeRun Setup but not from the TV.

[AlbumMan]

Just now seeing your reply. Diags now enabled on the TV's app.

[AlbumMan]

Nick, what happened to the TV app since I enabled diags this morning? None of the channels will play now nor will any of the previously recorded shows. Thanks for your help.

5/5 edit: Nickk, if you are away I apologize since a PM was sent the other day. The TV app is totally useless after enabling diags. Are you still working on it? Thank you again.

[gore]

I think a lot of people, stations included, have given up on this mess ever being resolved by the FCC or anyone else. TV stations are spending fortunes broadcasting a signal that no one can watch, a total waste of money, so maybe these stations, and others, might have just given up and decided to let people actually WATCH their signals until things sort themselves out in a few more years.

[Mjpearson2000]

Good observation. If the general public can't watch their broadcasts, the less their viewer-ship. It makes it more difficult for the broadcasters to sell advertisement time. But, I don't think the broadcasters have lost enough yet... in my mind, it'll take another year or more until they figure it out.

[jasonl]

The primary ongoing cost is power. Phoenix's big ATSC 3.0 host KASW operates at 20.44kW of transmitter power output. A web search tells me a good digital transmitter might be 45% efficient, so figure they're burning 45.5kW of SRP's power, or 1092 kWh/day. SRP commercial power averages out to about 8¢/kWh over the year at this usage (since most of the flat per-month charges basically count for nothing at 30,000kWh usage), so they're spending about $90/day or $33k/yr in power. But if they went back to 1.0 operation they'd be spending that anyway, so the real difference is just whatever extra money they could get by leasing out some additional bandwidth and whatever it's costing them for licenses to get everyone paid, so not a ton of money compared to the other expenses of operating a TV station.

[gore]

But as Mj noted, the stations are probably selling advertising based on the fact that there are both ATSC1 and ATSC3 signals, and when those sponsors see the viewership numbers that show that no one is watching those 3 signals, they will balk at the rates they are being charged. Especially if there are extra fees for just those 3 signals. Of course, there is also the fact that not a lot of people actually watch antenna TV any more in the first place, they stream via cable, DirecTV, Dish, or whatever and get paid for those viewers, so what's the incentive to do anything with the off-air signals at all? If it were not for the FCC requirements for broadcast television, I really don't think TV stations would be on-air right now at all. They don't get paid for it, so why keep it running at all? Broadcast television was based on ad revenue based on potential viewers covered by the signals. Retransmission consent and it's huge bucket of money totally ruined broadcast television years ago, this is just another step in that process.

[Cabal]

But as Mj noted, the stations are probably selling advertising based on the fact that there are both ATSC1 and ATSC3 signals

Based on the existence of lighthouse signals? I'm suspect.

[bobchase]

... A web search tells me a good digital transmitter might be 45% efficient...

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm trying to help you make your point. KASW's whack-a-mole transmitter has to produce about 24 kW of RF to put 20 kW up the pipe. The rest is spent on heating up the various on-board reject loads. And it's about 25% efficient overall. (Compared to their brand new KNXV transmitter that runs at 37% efficiency). So yes, it's very expensive for no measurable viewership. I know that there is no viewership because it takes days before anyone calls the station to say "Do you know that KASW or ABC15NG is off the air?" after a major burnout.

[AlbumMan]

Nickk, while waiting for a reply from you here or PM, I opened the TCL app this afternoon (5/6) and see that it is partially functioning again.

While the ATSC1 stations are now playing, NONE of the ATSC3 stations will play and freeze upon tuning. Not sure what got changed Sunday when you requested I enable diags which BTW are still on.
When I started this thread Sunday, the two now non-DRM'd HDR10 stations (106.1 and 112.1) played beautifully and wondered why the never DRM'd HDR10 station (103.1) never has played in the app.
If you're seeing this now, I have the app running in the background on 112.1 which freezes when tuned, pauses about 10 seconds then the cycle repeats.
Is there any chance of reversing whatever may have changed since Sunday when the diags were enabled? Or going back further to August last year when I got the TV and reported 103.1 freezing/not playing.

Thank you very much!

[AlbumMan]

Okay, final post for the night. I uninstalled the TV app, reinstalled and most of the ATSC3 stations now play ONLY because the Speaker Configuration was left as UNCONFIGURED. If set to Stereo, most of them will still play but anything else (specifically Digital Passthrough) causes the instant freeze. Even in Stereo, the audio is mostly missing and not acceptable. Hopefully this will help troubleshoot the issue I'm having.

[nickk]

Sorry, busy start to the week.

I set up our TCL 55QM5K here... will test speaker configurations...

[nickk]

This TCL has both an AC4 system codec and AC4-passthrough conversion.

In Unconfigured, Stereo, and 5.1 Surround configurations the HDHomeRun app uses the AC4 system codec (local decode) which works fine for me.
In Digital Passthrough the HDHomeRun app uses the AC4 passthrough conversion support (local decode) which also works fine for me.
Cloud transcode is not used in any speaker configuration.

The one issue I did find - video stalls attempting to play my local ATSC 3.0 channels (audio plays but video is stuck on the first frame). This seems to be codec related.

[AlbumMan]

The one issue I did find - video stalls attempting to play my local ATSC 3.0 channels (audio plays but video is stuck on the first frame). This seems to be codec related.

Thanks for checking. That's exactly what I was referring to. Since the TV doesn't 100% like the app, I will delete it and continue to use the onn Google 4k Pro box since it works for ALL the ATSC3 non-DRM'd stations.