ATSC 3.0 Internet Streams

[NedS]

...but most of your client updates are months old, too, and are mostly bugfixes. Combine that with firmware age and lack of movement (and worse, communication) on DRM, and "stagnation" sure seems to fit.

I'm a fan and big user, but need to call it like it is.

The app UI is updated remotely, several times a month, and does not bump the main version number of the app. That is why there is a UI version number within the app. There are a lot more updates coming soon. Part of why Nick said what he said earlier was to help gauge interest in this feature, to help see what priority it should be given.

My last (maybe 2) replies here is more about the misconception about the firmware updates; that the frequency of *hardware* firmware updates is somehow related to new features. 90% of the time the hardware is simply relaying data. It's very basic. Most features are about what happens to that data. This is why you don't need a firmware update to handle a new video or audio codec, because it's just data, and only the app/player needs to be updated (if at all) in such a situation.

(There may still be a firmware component to ATSC 3.0 internet streams, but it isn't strictly necessary, as far as what has been explained to me. There are a few different ways these streams could be implemented, and that in itself is something that the dev team is evaluating.)

(And yes, I wish I could go into more detail about ATSC 3.0 DRM, but that's not the topic of this thread, and my hands are tied by legal on that. Anything on that topic has to be ran past the boss, and even he can't say everything he wants to say about it.)

[hancox]

Thanks @NedS . The (understandably) non-detailed response constitutes the biggest update on DRM in months! I completely get it - you guys have your hands tied between a few different factions on this, but even a breadcrumb like your response is appreciated, even if it's not announcing anything!

[bandit5731]

who actually uses the app?

The majority of our customers, especially those who want to watch ATSC 3.0 channels.

the interface is so very clunky. im actually shocked you have not changed or touched it in years. i tried to use the other day for troubleshooting and its just not user friendly.

We've had several major GUI updates just in the last year alone, and have more updates and improvements in the pipeline. Feel free to make a post about where you think we can improve upon.

theres not even an exit box top right like a normal windows app.

It does have that. Are you in full screen mode?

Reason for using plex or emby for live tv.

Plex and Emby do not yet support ATSC 3.0 audio codecs.

so if you dont support on the device how will we use our preferred players?

Third party software does not require us to do anything else to implement ATSC 3.0 internet streams. They are free to do that right now. The ATSC 3.0 broadcast data contains the necessary URLs and such.

yes in full screen mode. and esc doesnt get out of full screen mode to see any exit button. also i use min 1440p monitor and its so zoomed in like im using ma 480p screen. with my 4k monitor its even worse. not sure there is a way to show more on the screen in full screen mode.

emby does support the audio codecs.
as per my open thread. atsc 3.0 isnt even working right using your app.
last time i used the app was 2 years ago. it looks the same as it always has. but im glad to hear there have been improvements.

on this page esc does nothing cant exit. i have to alt tab to force close.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17VUJtm ... sp=sharing

here is the live page ona 4k monitor for hdhomerun
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yv42qY ... sp=sharing

here is emby on the live page on same 4k screen. see how much more can be seen?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fnHRk0 ... sp=sharing

Needs desktop mode. icons are huge. need a way to zoom out some.
thanks

[nickk]

yes in full screen mode. and esc doesnt get out of full screen mode to see any exit button. also i use min 1440p monitor and its so zoomed in like im using ma 480p screen. with my 4k monitor its even worse. not sure there is a way to show more on the screen in full screen mode.

on this page esc does nothing cant exit. i have to alt tab to force close.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17VUJtm ... sp=sharing

Move the mouse to the top of the screen - Windows will display the title bar with the exit button.
If you do not have a mouse press Alt-F4.

If your 1440p monitor and your 4K monitor are the same physical size everything on screen should be the same size on each monitor. The screen resolution doesn't affect the size of the text/icons.

[bandit5731]

yes in full screen mode. and esc doesnt get out of full screen mode to see any exit button. also i use min 1440p monitor and its so zoomed in like im using ma 480p screen. with my 4k monitor its even worse. not sure there is a way to show more on the screen in full screen mode.

on this page esc does nothing cant exit. i have to alt tab to force close.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17VUJtm ... sp=sharing

Move the mouse to the top of the screen - Windows will display the title bar with the exit button.
If you do not have a mouse press Alt-F4.

If your 1440p monitor and your 4K monitor are the same physical size everything on screen should be the same size on each monitor. The screen resolution doesn't affect the size of the text/icons.

the mouse hovering is hit or miss. - edit its detecting the mouse on the most top pixel. maybe make more sensative?

as for the sizing yes that is whats wrong. on a 4k screen i should have the option to see more info not the same info as a lower res screen. seems its made for 80 year olds that are blind. everything is so big

[nickk]

the mouse hovering is hit or miss. - edit its detecting the mouse on the most top pixel. maybe make more sensative?

This is handled by Windows, UWP apps have no control over it.

as for the sizing yes that is whats wrong. on a 4k screen i should have the option to see more info not the same info as a lower res screen. seems its made for 80 year olds that are blind. everything is so big

It is designed for you to be sitting on the sofa in front of a big screen (or using a phone/tablet).

Agreed the sizing is large when you are sitting at a desk in front of a computer screen, but that isn't how most people watch TV. Personally I use Windows 11 for TV watching, but driving a big screen TV that I watch from the sofa.

BTW - you can get 4K phones... it doesn't mean you can make things smaller and fit more on the screen.

[bandit5731]

the mouse hovering is hit or miss. - edit its detecting the mouse on the most top pixel. maybe make more sensative?

This is handled by Windows, UWP apps have no control over it.

as for the sizing yes that is whats wrong. on a 4k screen i should have the option to see more info not the same info as a lower res screen. seems its made for 80 year olds that are blind. everything is so big

It is designed for you to be sitting on the sofa in front of a big screen (or using a phone/tablet).

Agreed the sizing is large when you are sitting at a desk in front of a computer screen, but that isn't how most people watch TV. Personally I use Windows 11 for TV watching, but driving a big screen TV that I watch from the sofa.

BTW - you can get 4K phones... it doesn't mean you can make things smaller and fit more on the screen.

Right i agree most do use on sofa. but i use sofa and i use my pc alot. any chance you can add desktop mode down the road? emby, plex offers this, and thats what makes the interface great.

[kingcoldcuts]

After replying to a few other threads today, I decided to check out the current lineup for Las Vegas over at rabbitears.info.

It looks like KVVU is now broadcasting an internet only ATSC 3.0 from the Sinclair tower? Along with T2 and Pickleball TV?

I couldn't care less about T2 and PTV, but the local FOX affiliate? Yeah. I want that if it's something we can make happen!!

Thanks,

KCC

[nickk]

After replying to a few other threads today, I decided to check out the current lineup for Las Vegas over at rabbitears.info.

It looks like KVVU is now broadcasting an internet only ATSC 3.0 from the Sinclair tower? Along with T2 and Pickleball TV?

I couldn't care less about T2 and PTV, but the local FOX affiliate? Yeah. I want that if it's something we can make happen!!

Confirming KVVU, T2, and PTV in Las Vegas as OTT channels.
T2 and PTV will be available to watch via the HDHomeRun soon.
KVVU is DRM encrypted.

[kingcoldcuts]

After replying to a few other threads today, I decided to check out the current lineup for Las Vegas over at rabbitears.info.

It looks like KVVU is now broadcasting an internet only ATSC 3.0 from the Sinclair tower? Along with T2 and Pickleball TV?

I couldn't care less about T2 and PTV, but the local FOX affiliate? Yeah. I want that if it's something we can make happen!!

Confirming KVVU, T2, and PTV in Las Vegas as OTT channels.
T2 and PTV will be available to watch via the HDHomeRun soon.
KVVU is DRM encrypted.

Ugh. I wish that was denoted on rabbitears. Any idea if that is a decision Gray Media has implemented company-wide?

Are NextGen certified televisions able to decode those channels? Just curious what I need to be able to view the broadcast. I just want to see if their OTT picture quality is noticeably better than their ATSC 1.0 garbage.

KCC

[danieljlevine]

That’s great news that we are getting close having the internet streams available.

[nickk]

Ugh. I wish that was denoted on rabbitears. Any idea if that is a decision Gray Media has implemented company-wide?

My understanding is that Gray Media doesn't have a choice - the requirement is imposed by Fox Corporation (the network).

Are NextGen certified televisions able to decode those channels? Just curious what I need to be able to view the broadcast. I just want to see if their OTT picture quality is noticeably better than their ATSC 1.0 garbage.

It is an optional feature. Some brands do but Samsung doesn't at this time.

T2 is 1080p60 at 7Mbps (high quality for HEVC)
PB is 1080p60 HEVC at 8Mbps (high quality for HEVC) with fallback options of 720p60 at 4Mbps and 540p60 at 1Mbps
Quality is fantastic.

[Cabal]

Ugh. I wish that was denoted on rabbitears. Any idea if that is a decision Gray Media has implemented company-wide?

My understanding is that Gray Media doesn't have a choice - the requirement is imposed by Fox Corporation (the network).

Interesting. Fox's ATSC 3.0 signal is unencrypted in my market. Or are you referring to internet streams specifically requiring DRM?

[Trip]

Ugh. I wish that was denoted on rabbitears.

I actually hadn't realized that internet streams in 3.0 could be either encrypted or unencrypted. I use the same flag that I use for encryption to denote internet streams. I'll have to change that, but I also had no way of knowing that it was encrypted. Trying to get good information on the 3.0 signals is really, really hard.

- Trip

[kingcoldcuts]

Ugh. I wish that was denoted on rabbitears.

I actually hadn't realized that internet streams in 3.0 could be either encrypted or unencrypted. I use the same flag that I use for encryption to denote internet streams. I'll have to change that, but I also had no way of knowing that it was encrypted. Trying to get good information on the 3.0 signals is really, really hard.

- Trip

My comment was more lament than blame, my friend. I also had no idea, and if I have any disappointment to assign it lies squarely with the broadcasters. Thanks for providing the amazing service!

KCC