No longer picking up a channel that worked previously

[mchampion]

I have an HDHomeRun Flex 4k that I have linked to Plex/Jellyfin to be able to watch my local stations when I am outside the house. Everything had been working fine for at least a couple years. Today I tried to watch my local FOX station while I was outside my house and it couldn't be picked up. I ran a repeat channel scan in the HDHomeRun app when I got home and the FOX station is no longer picked up in the scan. All of the other stations are working fine. My TV's built-in tuner picks up the FOX station just fine with perfect reception, so it doesn't seem to be an issue with the antenna. The ATSC 3.0 version of the FOX station is picked up by the HDHomeRun channel scan, but I'm unable to watch it because it's DRM protected.

Here's the TV fool for my antenna: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapp ... 18eedde0ec
The FOX station is 12.1. It is essentially the same direction and distance as the other major stations and all of those pick up just fine.

Any idea why this one station disappeared from my HDHomeRun? Is it possible my TV is tuning to the ATSC 3.0 broadcast and the 1.0 has been disabled/discontinued? I thought they were required to continue broadcasting 1.0 for now, but maybe I'm wrong?

[SageMyth]

I had this exact same problem with a local station.
The hdhomerun channel scan could not find the channel but my two TV's could.
I found that I could use VLC to play the channel from a hdhomerun even though it had been removed from the hdhomerun channel list.
The company that runs the local channel broadcast was still broadcasting but had removed all ATSC PSIP info so that there were no channel names or virtual channel numbers.
After about 3 months it got fixed.
Very frustrating!

[SageMyth]

Here is an example of what I found with two different scans; August 5 and August 29.
us-bcast:22 had no PSIP info on August 5 but it did on August 29.
I included us-bcast:24 for comparison.
For some reason the broadcaster allowed us-bcast:22 to run like this for about 3 months.

Code: Select all

hdhomerun_config 1080FA41 scan 0 hdhomerun_scan_1080FA41_0_20240805.txt
SCANNING: 533000000 (us-bcast:24)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=80 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x03CD
PROGRAM 3: 6.1 KIVI-DT
PROGRAM 4: 6.2 Boise 6
PROGRAM 5: 6.3 MYSTERY
PROGRAM 6: 6.4 Bounce
PROGRAM 7: 6.5 LAFF
PROGRAM 8: 6.6 getTV
SCANNING: 527000000 (us-bcast:23)
LOCK: none (ss=31 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 521000000 (us-bcast:22)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=80 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2245
PROGRAM 1: 0
PROGRAM 2: 0
PROGRAM 3: 0
PROGRAM 4: 0
PROGRAM 5: 0
PROGRAM 6: 0
PROGRAM 7: 0
PROGRAM 8: 0
PROGRAM 9: 0
PROGRAM 10: 0

Code: Select all

hdhomerun_config 1080FA41 scan 0 hdhomerun_scan_1080FA41_0_20240829.txt
SCANNING: 533000000 (us-bcast:24)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=84 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x03CD
PROGRAM 3: 6.1 KIVI-DT
PROGRAM 4: 6.2 Boise6
PROGRAM 5: 6.3 MYSTERY
PROGRAM 6: 6.4 BOUNCE
PROGRAM 7: 6.5 LAFF
PROGRAM 8: 6.6 GET
SCANNING: 521000000 (us-bcast:22)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=78 snq=100 seq=100)
TSID: 0x2245
PROGRAM 1: 22.1 RealAMV
PROGRAM 2: 22.2 STORY
PROGRAM 3: 22.3 HEROES
PROGRAM 4: 22.4 CATCHY
PROGRAM 5: 22.5 MOVIES
PROGRAM 6: 22.6 START
PROGRAM 7: 22.7 RETRO
PROGRAM 8: 22.8 ACE
PROGRAM 9: 22.9 KTSY
PROGRAM 10: 22.10 WEATHER

[mchampion]

I had this exact same problem with a local station.
The hdhomerun channel scan could not find the channel but my two TV's could.
I found that I could use VLC to play the channel from a hdhomerun even though it had been removed from the hdhomerun channel list.
The company that runs the local channel broadcast was still broadcasting but had removed all ATSC PSIP info so that there were no channel names or virtual channel numbers.
After about 3 months it got fixed.
Very frustrating!

Interesting. Thanks for the response. Hopefully it doesn't take them too long to fix it if this is the issue.
Thankfully I can still watch the station while I'm home, but it's nice to be able to watch when I'm out and about (it's football season, after all...)

[jasonl]

TVFool is worse than useless at this point as everything in it is 7+ years out of date. Don't use it. Stick to the RabbitEars Signal Search Map for good technical information or the FCC's DTV Reception Maps for something simple.

KPTV is (currently) broadcasting on VHF channel 12. All the other major stations in Portland are on UHF, except for the main OPB broadcast, and they have a UHF repeater that provides a decent enough signal to most of the urban area. VHF reception can be tricky if you're using an antenna that isn't properly designed for VHF (i.e. has elements at least 30" across), which means most indoor antennas. The reception small antennas do get comes from the coax cable rather than the antenna, and even slight changes in the positioning of the cable can make big differences in reception. The good news is that KPTV has a permit to move to a UHF channel to end this problem, but it doesn't have to be completed until August of next year, so who knows when they will actually make the move. What kind of antenna are you using?

[mchampion]

TVFool is worse than useless at this point as everything in it is 7+ years out of date. Don't use it. Stick to the RabbitEars Signal Search Map for good technical information or the FCC's DTV Reception Maps for something simple.

KPTV is (currently) broadcasting on VHF channel 12. All the other major stations in Portland are on UHF, except for the main OPB broadcast, and they have a UHF repeater that provides a decent enough signal to most of the urban area. VHF reception can be tricky if you're using an antenna that isn't properly designed for VHF (i.e. has elements at least 30" across), which means most indoor antennas. The reception small antennas do get comes from the coax cable rather than the antenna, and even slight changes in the positioning of the cable can make big differences in reception. The good news is that KPTV has a permit to move to a UHF channel to end this problem, but it doesn't have to be completed until August of next year, so who knows when they will actually make the move. What kind of antenna are you using?

Huh. So the issue might be that the KPTV broadcast just isn't strong enough to work consistently at my location? That would make sense because since the time I originally posted this, I was able to pick it up on a channel scan again. Now that I think back, I do remember occasionally having issues with the reception for that station, cutting out for a few seconds at a time, but don't remember having that issue with other stations.

I'm using Antennas Direct ClearStream 4 antenna with a VHF attachment and a signal amplifier.

[jasonl]

So based on the direction and distance, you're somewhere on the south side of Oswego Lake, but probably pretty close to the lake. The hills on the far side of the lake block direct line of sight for the main broadcast towers, and you are getting signals that are hitting the edge and diffracting down. The ClearStream 4 with VHF addon is like 10x better at UHF reception than VHF because of the greater sizes of the VHF elements as well as the reflector screens. There should probably still be enough signal since you're so close, but diffracted signals can be very hit or miss, because you end up with hot spots and cold spots and spots that get a lot of multipath, and that can all change over time. VHF is also subject to a lot more environmental interference from things like fluorescent and LED light bulbs, fans, motors, pumps, and compressors, so even something innocuous like replacing a light bulb can clobber your reception. It's never fun trying to identify the primary source of these kinds of issues because there are so many variables, but if you know you made any changes to anything electrical anywhere near the antenna or HDHomeRun, maybe give that item a quick powerdown and see if KPTV comes back. If the antenna isn't bolted down, consider moving it around and seeing if anything changes. Also consider contacting the station and asking if they have a planned date for their move to the new frequency. I can't imagine a Fox station would want to do anything during NFL season, but you never know.

[mchampion]

So based on the direction and distance, you're somewhere on the south side of Oswego Lake, but probably pretty close to the lake. The hills on the far side of the lake block direct line of sight for the main broadcast towers, and you are getting signals that are hitting the edge and diffracting down. The ClearStream 4 with VHF addon is like 10x better at UHF reception than VHF because of the greater sizes of the VHF elements as well as the reflector screens. There should probably still be enough signal since you're so close, but diffracted signals can be very hit or miss, because you end up with hot spots and cold spots and spots that get a lot of multipath, and that can all change over time. VHF is also subject to a lot more environmental interference from things like fluorescent and LED light bulbs, fans, motors, pumps, and compressors, so even something innocuous like replacing a light bulb can clobber your reception. It's never fun trying to identify the primary source of these kinds of issues because there are so many variables, but if you know you made any changes to anything electrical anywhere near the antenna or HDHomeRun, maybe give that item a quick powerdown and see if KPTV comes back. If the antenna isn't bolted down, consider moving it around and seeing if anything changes. Also consider contacting the station and asking if they have a planned date for their move to the new frequency. I can't imagine a Fox station would want to do anything during NFL season, but you never know.

Your level of analysis is impressive. Yes, I am on the south side of the lake pretty close to the lake, and yes the hills on the other side likely block the signal. The antenna is currently in its 4th or 5th position in the attic as the prior positions had worse reception, so I'm not sure if it's going to get any better with another location. There's a lot of tall trees (100'+) in the area that probably block the signal as well. I haven't changed any of the devices around the HDHomeRun or antenna in over a year, so I can't attribute it to that.

As I said in the last post, the signal for the station is picking up again, so it was probably some outside interference with the weak-ish signal. Since all the other stations on UHF signals come in great, would it be safe to assume that the FOX station will work much better once they make the switch to UHF? If so, I can deal with it in the meantime since it has worked a majority of the time since I set it up and it works fine at home with my TV tuner.

[jasonl]

Yes, their new signal will be almost identical to what the ABC, CBS, and NBC stations are broadcasting.