Encryption

[ppasteur]

Yeah I keep coming back to this thread to see if there is any progress on resolving the issues with the HDHomerun 4K boxes that keep me from watching the three out of 4 local ATSC 3.0 stations. I haven't seen anything that helps me with that in quite some time. It would be great to get some official feedback on the current status of the project to get this resolved.

[HoTst2]

I guess it's still just a simple case of ...

The A3SA approves and defines the necessary technical specifics for gateway devices to receive DRM encrypted broadcasts.

Progress = 0%

Therefore, SD developing and releasing a fix for it. ...
Progress = 0%

So nothing to report...

[hancox]

I guess it's still just a simple case of ...

The A3SA approves and defines the necessary technical specifics for gateway devices to receive DRM encrypted broadcasts.

Progress = 0%

Therefore, SD developing and releasing a fix for it. ...
Progress = 0%

So nothing to report...

I get it, but when this is the last word in February:

"Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my Android or Fire TV device?
Using a gateway product - we expect it will be possible in the future but it is not possible today. The Google Widevine DRM decryption is possible but there are other requirements that are draft/incomplete at this time. There is activity happening."

...it will be August next week, and basically nothing since. If there is (another) A3SA holdup, at least hint at it. If dev work is progressing, at least hint at it.

[HoTst2]

I guess it's still just a simple case of ...

The A3SA approves and defines the necessary technical specifics for gateway devices to receive DRM encrypted broadcasts.

Progress = 0%

Therefore, SD developing and releasing a fix for it. ...
Progress = 0%

So nothing to report...

I get it, but when this is the last word in February:

"Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my Android or Fire TV device?
Using a gateway product - we expect it will be possible in the future but it is not possible today. The Google Widevine DRM decryption is possible but there are other requirements that are draft/incomplete at this time. There is activity happening."

...it will be August next week, and basically nothing since. If there is (another) A3SA holdup, at least hint at it. If dev work is progressing, at least hint at it.

Yeah, certainly know how you feel. ....

Me and my three other siblings here are now debating about just abandoning the gateway approach for OTA TV dvr'ing, because of no evidence of a DRM solution in the foreseeable future. But with everyone now retired and on fixed incomes, the high cost per box for the "other" product's individual STB solution is still keeping everyone here with the SD HDHR-4K unit so far.

Anyhow FWIW, if you haven't seen it already. May want to checkout the recent comments of Dave Arland, spokesman for Pearl TV and the A3SA on the issue of DRM and other 3.0 related stuff. ...

Being interviewed by Dylan Ross ("WHY over the air") on YT. ...

https://youtu.be/9tSHp3567pM?si=GpcUIcT_3gFi1lmC

He flatly denies there's any foot-dragging or other alterior sinister motives by the A3SA on the gateway devices. But just because we're such a tiny minority (comparatively speaking). It's simply a very low priority for them right now, but is assuredly coming.

IOW; "hurry up and wait" ....

[danieljlevine]

So since ATSC 3.0 isn’t officially rolled out and they’ve demonstrated that DRM denies access to stations using it and since ATSC 1.0 is basically the same content, they should agree to turn it off on the transmissions now that the test was successful and turn it back on, if they must, when they’ve worked all the cases out.

[gore]

So since ATSC 3.0 isn’t officially rolled out and they’ve demonstrated that DRM denies access to stations using it and since ATSC 1.0 is basically the same content, they should agree to turn it off on the transmissions now that the test was successful and turn it back on, if they must, when they’ve worked all the cases out.

Exactly! What is different about the CONTENT on ATSC 3.0 as opposed to that on the ATSC 1.0 feed? The answer is absolutely nothing. Not a thing. Not different ads, different content, nothing at all. So the TV stations are essentially transmitting a feed that no one can watch, spending money on power to do that, getting no revenue from it, wasting money just to make things difficult for viewers in the hope that they will pay for the 3.0 broadcast. The ability of stations and station-ownership groups to charge for their transmissions years ago completely ruined over the air TV for viewers. What used to be free over-the-air went away if you happen to want to watch TV via cable, satellite, or stream, and if you are too far out from the transmitter, it's just too bad, pay up or not watch. The enhanced capability of ATSC 3.0 signals to be watchable farther from the transmitter means that more viewers will be able to receive those signals where the 1.0 is not receivable, but the stations want to be paid for that perk. I can't receive ATSC 1.0 signals at my location, while the 3.0 signals come in just fine here, rock stable, but I can't watch them because of encryption, they want me to pay for the exact same thing that someone who is closer can watch for free.

The slow creep of ATSC 3.0 watching ability is just part of this whole mess.

[petelombardo]

I'm torn. I both want and don't want SiliconDust to release a working DRM-decryption version on Android. On the one hand, I would love to watch the encrypted channels, even if it only works within the Android app for now. On the other hand, doing so relieves the frustration of it not working, which relaxes the pressure to abandon DRM entirely (which, personally, I think removing DRM is the right move).

My 2 cents, with a grain of salt...
I just cannot see the whole Internet requirement being feasible for OTA transmissions. I'm sure it's all because they don't want a DVD-like issue where the static keys get leaked/hacked. So they use dynamic keys probably, which can be revoked. But then if the Internet goes out (say during a hurricane/tornado/flood), people can't watch TV? Makes no sense. Seems dangerous.

[bobchase]

The TV's can replace the static keys, if they get hacked. On board, there are 4 keys per group with 4 groups (16 keys). If necessary, any one group can be replaced by a firmware upload.
If the internet went out during a disaster, most likely the power would too, so who cares? If only a portion of the market has no power, it it a fairly easy thing to kill the DRM in the encoders that I have used. Today, most broadcasters are transmitting both static and dynamic keys because, as it has been overly discussed on this forum, there are issues that are still being resolved.

[mostlychris]

I just got the Flex 4K so I could watch the ABC station that moved to ATSC 3.0 a few months ago. After installing it, I saw the DRM tag. Since I had never seen that before and never had to worry about it, I am not on this rabbit trail of DRM/Plex/Gateway devices/etc. I saw a lot of comments in this thread about stations having to simulcast ATSC 1.0 for at least some amount of time. It appears that the ABC station here (KSAT) is no long broadcasting the original signal and is completely on DRM protected ATSC 3.0. Is this now a thing? Can broadcasters turn off the original programming?

[kyl416]

KSAT's ATSC 1.0 channels moved to other signals after their VHF 12 signal converted to ATSC 3.0:
12.1 ABC is on KLRN's VHF 9 signal
12.2 MeTV is on KVDA's UHF 15 signal
12.3 Movies! is on KLRN's VHF 9 signal
12.4 H&I is on KENS's UHF 29 signal
12.5 StartTV is on KNIC's UHF 18 signal

If you also can't get KLRN's 8.x channels you likely need a better antenna that has dedicated VHF elements.

[MikeBear]

I just got the Flex 4K so I could watch the ABC station that moved to ATSC 3.0 a few months ago. After installing it, I saw the DRM tag. Since I had never seen that before and never had to worry about it, I am not on this rabbit trail of DRM/Plex/Gateway devices/etc. I saw a lot of comments in this thread about stations having to simulcast ATSC 1.0 for at least some amount of time. It appears that the ABC station here (KSAT) is no long broadcasting the original signal and is completely on DRM protected ATSC 3.0. Is this now a thing? Can broadcasters turn off the original programming?

The HOST for KSAT .1 ATSC 1.0 station, is KLRN (RF9). So, you need t be able to receive that station, and it'll show it there.

[white_haired_uncle]

Yeah I keep coming back to this thread to see if there is any progress on resolving the issues with the HDHomerun 4K boxes that keep me from watching the three out of 4 local ATSC 3.0 stations. I haven't seen anything that helps me with that in quite some time. It would be great to get some official feedback on the current status of the project to get this resolved.

The broadcasters could flip a switch and the problem would be resolved in seconds.

Seems to me it's not the device that's keeping you from watching. The device is capturing exactly what is being broadcast: garbage.

[hancox]

Lon implies there may be some level of movement on the A3SA side, though that has meant basically nothing before. Any news here?

https://youtu.be/on1VV7JbRn4

[SpiceWare]

If the internet went out during a disaster, most likely the power would too, so who cares?

There are many people like me who have backup power. Mine's via solar with battery*, others use gas powered generators, or natural gas powered generators.

I'm in the Houston area and lost power the first day of the 2021 February Freeze and 3+ days after Hurricane Beryl. Internet and cellular last about half a day before going out. After that I relied on broadcast TV to keep up with the situation. I could hear a lot of generators running in my neighborhood, so I know I was not the only one with the ability to watch TV.

For those interested the links above are to posts at AtariAge of my experiences during those outages. The one for Beryl includes my first time using Camp Mode in my Tesla Model 3, which lets you run the car's AC all night in the garage without risk of asphyxiation. I only have 1 Powerwall, which can run most of my house but not the central AC unit.

* without a battery solar panels will turn off during a grid outage, so the panels by themselves cannot supply backup power.

[goofnroxx]

* without a battery solar panels will turn off during a grid outage, so the panels by themselves cannot supply backup power.

To be pedantic, this is not 100% true. Enphase iQ8 inverters can do what they call 'solar backup', which can form a microgrid and provide power without batteries. This only further highlights the absurdness of the cloud reliance of the app further however.