Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atmos?

ATSC 3.0 Forum
danieljlevine
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Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atmos?

Post by danieljlevine »

I was reading this and started thinking: Maybe NBC would try broadcasting the Olympics this year over ATSC 3.0 in Dolby Atmos:
https://www.sportsvideo.org/2024/01/03/ ... io-agenda/

I guess I got the idea from this video mentioning a station starting to play with that. https://youtu.be/ujTjPHw-guE

However, I suppose just because the audio will be broadcast over Xfinity on NBC in Dolby Atmos doesn’t mean it will also find its way to ATSC 3.0. And then my ATSC 3.0 NBC channel is DRM encrypted. :-/

But it would be interesting to know if NBC is actually broadcasting Dolby Atmos if you have a station that wasn’t DRM encrypted.

I suppose I could also try the Peacock app, assuming it supports Dolby Atmos.
Last edited by danieljlevine on Thu Jul 11, 2024 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

hancox
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by hancox »

Can't watch it. No news on DRM. Will probably do same with Peacock.

zippy
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by zippy »

Why is it important that the olympics is broadcast in dolby atmos? It's not like it's a concert. Isn't 4K more important?

emveepee
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by emveepee »

Interesting question, but to get Atmos AC-4 you definitely would have to have a supported h/w AC-4 player to a AVR since I think the Silicondust transcoder is still just vanilla 2:0 For sound you will generally be better off with ATSC 1.0

Even with an OTA TV that decodes ATSC 3.0 does anyone know what happens with ARC/eARC and the AC-4 codec so you can actually listen to Atmos sound?

danieljlevine
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by danieljlevine »

For me, I’m just trying to exercise the technology. Sure 4K would be great too, but the article was discussing that they were placing mics to help capture Atmos quality sound options. I suppose it could sound more like being there. It would be interesting to switch between ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 to see if you I perceive a difference with my Atmos capable receiver.

I suppose the commercials could also take advantage of Atmos. This could be easier since it’s scripted. I suppose if it was done “right” it would be gimmicky, like when 3D gratuitously brings an object far out of the screen and in your face. Something analogous to that with sound placement would be interesting. For Dolby 5.1, the analog is when there’s a knock at the door or phone rings off camera. I suppose the distinction with Atmos would be objects located at a specific location above the screen. How that would be done for sports I’m not sure. Maybe corner kicks? Ball could sound below the screen when kicked. Perhaps the sound of runners feet when focused on the leader while hearing the others runners off to the left.

kyl416
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by kyl416 »

All ATSC 3.0 NBC affiliates are still ingesting the same 1080i NBC Network feed as their ATSC 1.0 counterparts, this is not changing for the Olympics.

Any ATSC 3.0 channel providing Atmos or 1080p/HDR is just faking it and will not be the same experience you get from providers ingesting the 4K HDR event feed like Verizon FiOS, DISH, DIRECTV, Xfinity, Optimum or Fubo. This isnt a NBC only limitation, it also applies to the 4K sports that FOX and ABC/ESPN offer, along with this year's Super Bowl telecast on CBS.

foxbat121
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by foxbat121 »

Are you sure the 4K feed is even natively 4K this time around? In the past, all NBC Olympics 4K are also 1080p upscaled.

nickk
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by nickk »

The audio format that is used to feed Atmos receivers is not an approved codec for ATSC 3.0 broadcast.

ATSC 3.0 is AC4 audio which has similar 3D audio features but I am not aware of a way to get that to an Atmos receiver.

danieljlevine
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by danieljlevine »

nickk wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2024 1:43 pm The audio format that is used to feed Atmos receivers is not an approved codec for ATSC 3.0 broadcast.

ATSC 3.0 is AC4 audio which has similar 3D audio features but I am not aware of a way to get that to an Atmos receiver.
Oh no. I thought Id be able to get 5.1.2 from ATSC 3.0 someday in the distant future. :-/

Or are you saying I could get 5.1.2, but just not Atmos? I can get Atmos (as reported by the receiver) from my Fire TV 4K streamer when my Samsung TV used eArc and pass through with D+ and used to for Prime before the service change. You’re saying the HD HR app wouldn’t be able to do the same if the broadcast was in Atmos (or perhaps that’s not possible) because the standard is AC4? And even if 5.1.2 was delivered in AC4 it wouldn’t work on my Atmos receiver?

After reading this, I thiught it seemed like AC-4 could handle Atmos: https://professional.dolby.com/siteasse ... _share.pdf

Sorry, just trying to wrap my head around this. Was kind hoping to look forward to that kind of stuff on ATSC 3.0.

nickk
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by nickk »

Your Atmos receiver supports the EAC3-JOC audio codec.
The AC4 audio codec has the same key features as EAC3-JOC including 5.1.2 but it is a completely different codec and is not compatible.

I am not aware of any Atmos AVRs that support the AC4 codec.
I am not aware of any player devices that support converting AC4 to EAC3-JOC while preserving Atmos features. The player devices that support AC4 conversion convert to EAC3 (non-Atmos).

yurguis
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by yurguis »

I was reading this whitepaper https://professional.dolby.com/siteasse ... epaper.pdf and seems to me that if you have a device with a Dolby AC-4 Decoder (assuming ATSC3 TVs have one) the output will depend on the playback device.
Dolby AC-4 can carry conventional channel-based soundtracks and object-basedmixes. Whatever the source type, the decoder renders and optimizes the soundtrack to suit the playback device.

danieljlevine
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by danieljlevine »

nickk wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:48 am Your Atmos receiver supports the EAC3-JOC audio codec.
The AC4 audio codec has the same key features as EAC3-JOC including 5.1.2 but it is a completely different codec and is not compatible.

I am not aware of any Atmos AVRs that support the AC4 codec.
I am not aware of any player devices that support converting AC4 to EAC3-JOC while preserving Atmos features. The player devices that support AC4 conversion convert to EAC3 (non-Atmos).
Don’t you guys already do an AC4 to AC3 transcode with HD HR 5K Flex devices if the player doesn’t support AC4? Maybe you could do a similar trick for AC4 to EAC3-JOC to make this work and become the first player to support that? Of course there are no ATSC 3.0 broadcasts to make it worthwhile.

What about internet delivered ATSC 3.0 channels (not sure what they are really called, if there’s a name). Would they also be using AC4?

signde
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by signde »

Every few months or so I search new AVRs for AC- audio support. There is not an AVR I've found yet that supports AC4.

Even my LG TV that supports ATSC 3.0 natively transcodes the AC4 audio to 2 channel PCM. Pretty disappointed by this as all of the major networks in 3.0 are broadcasting with 5.1 audio here.

There is a a competing hardware tuner that states their product can output Dolby Atmos. In their FAQ they state it will "Transcode AC-4 to Dolby Digital Plus or MAT when connected to newer AV receivers". I assume MAT is the output when the incoming signal is Atmos. Hard to know for sure if Atmos part works without any broadcasts but it does transcode AC4 5.1 to PCM 5.1 on the fly.

yurguis
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by yurguis »

signde wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:12 am Every few months or so I search new AVRs for AC- audio support. There is not an AVR I've found yet that supports AC4.

Even my LG TV that supports ATSC 3.0 natively transcodes the AC4 audio to 2 channel PCM. Pretty disappointed by this as all of the major networks in 3.0 are broadcasting with 5.1 audio here.

There is a a competing hardware tuner that states their product can output Dolby Atmos. In their FAQ they state it will "Transcode AC-4 to Dolby Digital Plus or MAT when connected to newer AV receivers". I assume MAT is the output when the incoming signal is Atmos. Hard to know for sure if Atmos part works without any broadcasts but it does transcode AC4 5.1 to PCM 5.1 on the fly.
From the whitepaper I posted a couple of posts above, the TV should come with a hardware AC4 decoder that will output whatever format your receiver is capable of handling up to Atmos. I have an old receiver and whenever I tune to an ATSC3 channel it displays 5.1, so it's getting 5.1 from the TV.

signde
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Re: Summer 2024 Olympics on ATSC 3.0 with Dolby Atoms?

Post by signde »

yurguis wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:55 am
signde wrote: Wed Jul 10, 2024 7:12 am Every few months or so I search new AVRs for AC- audio support. There is not an AVR I've found yet that supports AC4.

Even my LG TV that supports ATSC 3.0 natively transcodes the AC4 audio to 2 channel PCM. Pretty disappointed by this as all of the major networks in 3.0 are broadcasting with 5.1 audio here.

There is a a competing hardware tuner that states their product can output Dolby Atmos. In their FAQ they state it will "Transcode AC-4 to Dolby Digital Plus or MAT when connected to newer AV receivers". I assume MAT is the output when the incoming signal is Atmos. Hard to know for sure if Atmos part works without any broadcasts but it does transcode AC4 5.1 to PCM 5.1 on the fly.
From the whitepaper I posted a couple of posts above, the TV should come with a hardware AC4 decoder that will output whatever format your receiver is capable of handling up to Atmos. I have an old receiver and whenever I tune to an ATSC3 channel it displays 5.1, so it's getting 5.1 from the TV.
I just went back and double checked my G3 is now showing PCM 5.1 audio for some channels. Maybe it was a bug that was fixed, it's updated several times since I last tried this. I'm glad I rechecked it.

The G3's ATSC 3.0 tuner / app is quite a turd. The "Next Gen" channels almost always show no information in the guide. The TV app often crashes when I open a 3.0 station. If I get any brief interference such as airplane flutter, the 3.0 channels will lock up and stop playing. Have to exit the channel and start over. The HDHR apps handle those situations without crashing.

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