The HDFX-4K, a different perspective and why it is a good purchase..

[skydogjack]

Greetings,

When you cannot watch the Superbowl or about anything else with your current setup, what do you do? That is the genesis of why I started down this path and I thought a slightly different perspective might be worth sharing.

Our old residence and television viewing experience included a Plex media server setup with a very old HDHomerun Duo. It worked perfect until we moved to a new apartment. My window flat antenna could not get enough signal. I upgraded to ClearStream MAX-XR COMPLETE UHF VHF antenna for indoor use. It made a difference, but not enough. As I researched for a solution, I became aware that my old HDHomerun Duo hardware was just not as good as the new hardware. That's cool. With time things change and improve. There is ample information that I had a good chance of dramatically improving my OTA signal reception by just upgrading my tuner.

It became apparent I needed a new turner, and therefore, ATSC 3.0 came into my view. I learned ATSC 3.0 can have much better signal strength and the major OTA broadcasters in my area (Greenville, SC) are all simulcasting ATSC 3.0 and 1.0. I checked and only two right now are using DRM. I bought the new HDFX-4K and installed it yesterday. I now have new hardware, four tuners (two ATSC 3.0), signal strength at 100 percent on the 3.0 channels and 90 percent on the 1.0 channels (I was getting 70 percent with the old antenna and tuner. And I now get ABC now on ATSC 3.0. I got zip before.

After several months of reading viewing so many articles and videos regarding ATSC 3.0, the audio and DRM issues, the question as to why buy the HDFX-4K and pay 50 dollars more when I cannot use the 3.0 channels at all right now with my Plex media server, cannot decode the DRM channels even with the HDHomerun Application and have no expectation I ever will (who knows). It is a simple answer for me. The hardware "rocks". I could not be happier with how well it performs with such low signal strength. I can use it to record my favorite television shows with Plex over ATSC 1.0. I had lost much of that ability before. And, with all four tuners active, they each continue to provide excellent results.

The HDHomerun app on my FireTV Cube (3rd generation) works perfectly with ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 (non-DRM) channels. The HDHomerun app works perfectly with both in Windows 11 and Windows 10 for both 1.0 and 3.0 (non-DRM). And, last but not least. If the DRM (and audio on Plex) issues are resolved in the future, SiliconDust hopefully will be positioned to take full advantage of the ATSC 3.0 channels, including the encrypted ones.

I recognize that for many, this is not sufficient, especially those having multiple televisions and other devices who live in areas where ATSC 3.0 may be the best solution or only solution going forward and DRM is still a problem. But for me, given my circumstances, only on one large television and many computers in our apartment, this hardware works.

And lastly, because we live in a small space, and the fact the new antenna has all the hardware, which included a three-way splitter, my solution to be sure I can continue to see all my favorite televises shows on the big television over ATSC 3.0 if all the broadcasters decide to turn on DRM was simple. I ordered a new NextGen TV Box to replace the OTA tuner on my Samsung 58 inch led television. I think my main objective was to arrive at a solution that provided me with the ability to continue to take advantage of OTA broadcasting, have an excellent viewer experience, position myself for future options if they become available and minimize my financial investment.

I was going to be out at least 100 dollars for a new HDHomerun Duo, or 150 for a four-tuner model. It seems to me to be a good investment at this point to spend the extra 100 dollars. The additional 90 dollars at Walmart for the NextGen TV Box was not necessary at this time, but I like having the redundancy. If my media server crashed, I can still watch "Outlander". LOL.

That's really all I can add to the discussion about ATSC 3.0 and the HDFX-4K . We all have different needs and objective, but I thought sharing why this works for me might serve some purpose.

Cheers!

[freway01]

I've been using HDHomeRun tuners for awhile now. When I first heard I could use them with Plex, I jumped on the SD bandwagon. I currently have a Quattro 4-tuner (ATSC 1.0) and a Flex 4K ATSC 3.0 tuner. In addition to Plex, I also run Channels DVR, which also works with HDHomeRun tuners to record OTA broadcasts, and Live TV streaming video (I have Philo).

Plex software isn't ready for ATSC 3.0 because of the Dolby audio, so it may be able to play/record unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels, but you won't have audio. Channels on the other hand, does have the capability to play/record unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels, and you will have audio as long as playback is done with Channels. To be honest, I don't record anything in ATSC 3.0, because the local stations in the Phoenix area are testing DRM here so they are flipping DRM on and off, all the time. In addition, none of the channels here or anyplace else that I'm aware of, are actually broadcasting 4K video on their ATSC 3.0 channels.

Remember, SD devices are 'gateway' tuners that you plug into home network. This allows the tuner to be shared with any device with the right connection (network connected TV, Fire TV like device) and software app to watch TV from that single tuner. To make things simple for me, I use Fire TV 4K Max sticks on my TVs (4), and have installed the Plex, Channels, and HDHomeRun apps on each stick, not all NexGen TV's are capable of running the Plex, Channels, and HDHomeRun apps.

I was thinking of buying one of those 'other ATSC 3.0' tuners, but I came to my senses because I wasn't going to gain anything. They only have one tuner, I would need one for each TV, and the ATSC 3.0 video is the same as the ATSC 3.0. Not sure if they are able to record yet either, and can't be used with Plex or Channels.

[DSperber]

[removed by moderator - see forum rules]

[skydogjack]

Update on performance. I have only had the new hardware installed for two days. It does work far better than my old HDHomerun Duo which was going on four years old. Today is heavy clouds and light showers. All four tuners report a signal strength at 100 percent. Signal quality is between 90-100 percent on all four tuners, with the ATSC 3.0 tuners both showing 100 percent signal quality.

Tuner 0 is feeding to the HDHomerun App on a 3rd generation Fire Cube, Tuner 1 the HDHomerun App on Windows 11, Tuner 2 the HDHomerun app on Windows 11 and Tuner 3 using the Plex Installed App on Windows 11.

I have noticed some occasional degradation in the streaming rate when all four tuners are in use simultaneously. I did notice that yesterday, I got a signal quality of 100 percent on all four tuners. I suppose that may be because of the clouds and rain, but not enough to degrade the viewing performance.

I will get the ATSC 3.0 direct attached tuner box later this week. I think as DSperber also mentioned, going with the additional box that unencrypts DRM as I am doing makes sense to be sure we can continue to watch OTA, if that becomes the only option. I am not convinced this DRM issue will be resolved to all our satisfaction anytime soon.

[freway01]

Update on performance. I have only had the new hardware installed for two days. It does work far better than my old HDHomerun Duo which was going on four years old. Today is heavy clouds and light showers. All four tuners report a signal strength at 100 percent. Signal quality is between 90-100 percent on all four tuners, with the ATSC 3.0 tuners both showing 100 percent signal quality.

Tuner 0 is feeding to the HDHomerun App on a 3rd generation Fire Cube, Tuner 1 the HDHomerun App on Windows 11, Tuner 2 the HDHomerun app on Windows 11 and Tuner 3 using the Plex Installed App on Windows 11.

I have noticed some occasional degradation in the streaming rate when all four tuners are in use simultaneously. I did notice that yesterday, I got a signal quality of 100 percent on all four tuners. I suppose that may be because of the clouds and rain, but not enough to degrade the viewing performance.

I will get the ATSC 3.0 direct attached tuner box later this week. I think as DSperber also mentioned, going with the additional box that unencrypts DRM as I am doing makes sense to be sure we can continue to watch OTA, if that becomes the only option. I am not convinced this DRM issue will be resolved to all our satisfaction anytime soon.

It's your money, but all of the 'DRM' approved and functioning ATSC 3.0 devices really don't buy you much. No known broadcast stations in the US are broadcasting any 4K video at this time. People with these ATSC 3.0 tuners or NextGen TV's capable of decoding DRM were pissed because even the Super Bowel wasn't broadcasted OTA this year. ATSC 3.0 broadcasters broadcasting on 3.0 channels, are just broadcasting the same thing you can get on the 1.0 channel.

[skydogjack]

Update on performance. I have only had the new hardware installed for two days. It does work far better than my old HDHomerun Duo which was going on four years old. Today is heavy clouds and light showers. All four tuners report a signal strength at 100 percent. Signal quality is between 90-100 percent on all four tuners, with the ATSC 3.0 tuners both showing 100 percent signal quality.

Tuner 0 is feeding to the HDHomerun App on a 3rd generation Fire Cube, Tuner 1 the HDHomerun App on Windows 11, Tuner 2 the HDHomerun app on Windows 11 and Tuner 3 using the Plex Installed App on Windows 11.

I have noticed some occasional degradation in the streaming rate when all four tuners are in use simultaneously. I did notice that yesterday, I got a signal quality of 100 percent on all four tuners. I suppose that may be because of the clouds and rain, but not enough to degrade the viewing performance.

I will get the ATSC 3.0 direct attached tuner box later this week. I think as DSperber also mentioned, going with the additional box that unencrypts DRM as I am doing makes sense to be sure we can continue to watch OTA, if that becomes the only option. I am not convinced this DRM issue will be resolved to all our satisfaction anytime soon.

It's your money, but all of the 'DRM' approved and functioning ATSC 3.0 devices really don't buy you much. No known broadcast stations in the US are broadcasting any 4K video at this time. People with these ATSC 3.0 tuners or NextGen TV's capable of decoding DRM were pissed because even the Super Bowel wasn't broadcasted OTA this year. ATSC 3.0 broadcasters broadcasting on 3.0 channels, are just broadcasting the same thing you can get on the 1.0 channel.

I think you missed my point. I cannot receive several ATSC 1.0 unencrypted channels, whereas I can get the 3.0 channels. Tonight, my wife and I will be able to watch the Oscars on ABC because we can receive that channel using the new HDFX-4K. If ABC follows the crowd and turns on DRM, we will still be able to watch it with the new Nextgen tuner because it provides DRM decryption. Our solution is simply a "hybrid" environment to carry us through until a future date when the dust settles.

You assertion "ATSC 3.0 devices really don't buy you much" is not correct. It will provide us with the ability to watch OTA programs that are not available right now with DRM. This is a viable solution to our reception issues while we wait for the industry to sort out the future of ATSC 3.0 and DRM. I also forgot to add that we can also pick up the local Fox channel using ATSC 3.0 on the new HDFX-4K, but it, like NBC has turned DRM on. We cannot get the Fox ATSC 1.0 broadcast signal either. The same holds true for CBS. The ATSC 1.0 signal is hardly usable. It is strong and reliable on ATSC 3.0 and we can watch it because that station has not turned on DRM. A really important difference between ATSC 1.0 and 3.0 is that the ATSC 3.0 signals are often more reliable, and reception is possible. That is a game changer for many of us.

My position has been simple from the start when I first wrote this post. The HDFX-4K device is an awesome piece of hardware. We will use it until or if it is rendered unusable because it simply works for much of our needs right now. And just because the stand alone Nextgen devices don't provide everything does not mean that don't have value. Kinda reminds me of the old saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater'.

Cheers!

[Cabal]

In addition to the benefits of (currently) unencrypted ATSC 3.0 channels, the Flex 4K also has a more sensitive tuner than previous models. I replaced my HDHR5-4US and am able to reliably tune some out-of-market ATSC 1.0 channels that were marginal before, with no change in antenna or pre-amp configuration.

Also, in my market, the Fox 1080p signal is noticeably better than the 720p signal. I don't have insight into the pipeline that is feeding that signal, though.

[NatHillIV]

Generally speaking, I think it is fair to say in most cities the ATSC 3.0 signal results in a better picture quality. Every town is different, no doubt.
My Indianapolis ATSC 3.0 broadcasts look better than their 1.0 counterparts.

[Cabal]

I don't agree. Most are just re-encoding their MPEG-2 streams on the way to the towers.

[skydogjack]

Obviously, there are many, many variables. Trying to focus on one single element as to what creates a better or worse viewing experience might be an exercise in futility. As I dug deeper into the variable of transmitter location, I was actually surprised to learn that most of the main local ATSC 3.0 stations are not located on the same towers as the ATSC 1.0 towers.

Using the CM antenna map for where we live, the 3.0 towers are mostly 180 degrees opposite the 1.0 towers. But even more interesting is my new antenna is positioned at a second story window pointed at the 1.0 towers. The 3.0 towers are in the opposite direction, through multiple walls, in fact through the entire building and I get great signal strength. I would have thought a mostly clear line of sight would have better signals from the 1.0 towers.

I am including from CM the current listing for the channels in question. As you can see, the ATSC 3.0 transmitters are all located only 12 miles from me almost do south. The ATSC 1.0 towers are mostly do north.

Here is the info on the ATSC 1.0 transmitters:

Channel Call Sign RF Channel Distance Direction Signal Strenght
4.1 WYFF-DT1 NBC 30 24 330° -41.81
7.1 WSPA-DT1 CBS 11 23 13° -46.64
13.1 WLOS-DT1 ABC 31 8 340° -68.98
21.1 WHNS-DT1 FOX 17 31 329° -48.78
29.1 WNTV-DT1 PBS 8 8 340° -30.76
49.1 WRET-DT1 PBS 8 8 340° -30.76

Here is the info on the ATSC 3.0 towers:

Channel Call Sign RF Channel Distance Direction Signal Strength
4.1 WYFF-NG NBC 35 12 169° -38.22
7.1 WSPA-NG CBS 35 12 169° -38.22
13.1 WLOS-NG ABC 35 12 169° -38.22
21.1 WHNS-NG FOX 35 12 169° -38.22
40.1 WMYA-NG DABL 35 12 169° -38.22

Thoughts?

https://www.channelmaster.com/pages/tv- ... e-sc-29607

[kyl416]

Your DMA has a lot of translators that are cluttering the results on the Channel Master maps, try using the RabbitEars search instead.

Make sure you search for your specific location, as zip code only searches usually resolve to either the center of the zip code or the location of the post office, and in DMAs like your's just a few houses over can be the difference between direct line of sight reception or obstruction from a hill or mountain.

i.e. depending where you are in Greenville, with a decent VHF-Hi capable antenna you might be able to find a sweet spot to aim for that gets all the main ATSC 1.0 signals or one of their translators and still get the ATSC 3.0 channels from WMYA's RF 35 signal via backside reception.

[jasonl]

WLOS is abandoning its current Mt. Pisgah transmitter site and moving to Pinnacle Mountain (sharing a tower with WUNF), which will dramatically improve coverage of the SC side of the market. Don't know if there's a date for that yet.

[skydogjack]

Your DMA has a lot of translators that are cluttering the results on the Channel Master maps, try using the RabbitEars search instead.

Make sure you search for your specific location, as zip code only searches usually resolve to either the center of the zip code or the location of the post office, and in DMAs like your's just a few houses over can be the difference between direct line of sight reception or obstruction from a hill or mountain.

i.e. depending where you are in Greenville, with a decent VHF-Hi capable antenna you might be able to find a sweet spot to aim for that gets all the main ATSC 1.0 signals or one of their translators and still get the ATSC 3.0 channels from WMYA's RF 35 signal via backside reception.

Thanks! I did check with Rabbit Ears. Wow, there is a lot I don't know. There are way more transmitters than I realized. They are scattered all over. Plus, several stations are moving their transmitters. I have a lot of testing and experimenting to do. Good suggestions.

[skydogjack]

WLOS is abandoning its current Mt. Pisgah transmitter site and moving to Pinnacle Mountain (sharing a tower with WUNF), which will dramatically improve coverage of the SC side of the market. Don't know if there's a date for that yet.

I don't think they have moved yet. If I remember hearing correctly the other night, I think I heard the broadcaster say they were broadcasting from Pisgah. The previous posted has some good remarks also. Probably the biggest thing I have learned now i there are lots of towers scattered around (repeaters?) except for the ATSC 3.0 transmitters. They all seem to be located at the same spot about 12 miles south of me. I'm going for a drive today to the location of that tower. I curious to see what it looks like. I'll take a couple of photos.

Well, this has been an interesting journey so far. I have learned a lot. Thanks for your information.

Cheers!

PS: I came to the realization that I needed to change the direction for my new ClearStream MAX-XR COMPLETE UHF antenna to have the front point exactly at the ATSC 3.0 transmitters and most of the ATSC 1.0 channels on the backside of the antenna. I was off by 30-40 degrees. That made all the difference. I can get all the channels I want to view now even better than before.

An interesting side note. I now get way better reception with the new antenna combined with the new HDHomerun, but for interest, I switched my antenna input to the new HDFX-4K back to the old antenna, a old flat window mounted one. Wow! There was an amazing increase in channels detected, although the signal quality was not as good. And I was able to pick up more channels than with the new antenna. I suppose that is because it is closer to the unobstructed views mounted to the window. It makes me wonder how well the window mounted and cheaper flat antenna would perform if it could be mounted in a more actuate direction? All in all, I am very happy with how this all worked out. Thanks for all the comments!