Encryption

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Aseries
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Re: Encryption

Post by Aseries »

LOS ANGELES — A new digital video recorder specification is now available to licensees of the A3SA content protection technology being deployed throughout the country concurrent with the launch of NEXTGEN TV broadcast channels.
The new specification provides a blueprint for a variety of new ATSC 3.0 recording devices that can bring new product development for home networks, and keeping access to broadcast TV programs easy and unencumbered.

Ron Wheeler, Managing Director of A3SA, comments, “For the past year, we’ve been working in consultation with several electronics companies who are developing devices designed to add new features for NEXTGEN TV viewers, from simple DVRs to more advanced home networking systems. After considering the various home scenarios, A3SA is pleased to release detailed specifications that will guide companies and soon provide consumers with a wealth of new options for digital video recording and more.”

A3SA approved the new specifications and rules for secure DVRs, home gateways, and other accessory devices, as well as a newly added alternative method to let viewers securely stream ATSC 3.0 content from such devices throughout their home network. Developed in consultation with manufacturers and with extensive subsystem prototyping to prove feasibility, the new DVR specifications support multiple product architectures from single components to systems that have devices distributed across a home network.

The DVR specification is designed to work in concert with A3SA’s earlier established Broadcaster Encoding Rules, which govern how broadcasters can use the A3SA security technology with ATSC 3.0 content that is simulcast with corresponding ATSC 1.0 content, allowing viewers to decode and record broadcasts, make unlimited copies without expiration dates, and use common features like pause, rewind and fast-forward. The A3SA Encoding Rules also prevent downgrading of picture quality when connecting to legacy television sets.

The new A3SA DVR specification supports in-home streaming to applications hosted on common media consumption platforms such as Android, Fire, Roku, WebOS, and Tizen, with iOS support in process. The spec supports dynamic memory provisioning for media playback (an advantage for consumer devices) and enables developers of new NEXTGEN TV platforms to bring to market innovative new options.

— With reporting by Dave Arland

We can't say where SILICONDUST stands with this situation. It would be nice to know.

https://rbr.com/dvr-specifications-rele ... v-devices/

decaym
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Re: Encryption

Post by decaym »

Aseries wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:42 pm We can't say where SILICONDUST stands with this situation. It would be nice to know.
Did you not read literally two posts back regarding SD giving an update once they have a chance to wade through the information? Also, posting entire articles is bad practice as it is usually a copyright violation.

I, for one, will be waiting patiently for their update as to if this is finally a workable solution. Oh, hell, no I'm not patient but there really is no other choice at this point.

danieljlevine
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Re: Encryption

Post by danieljlevine »

I’m not sure why they didn’t mention that they were close to releasing a spec relevant to SD’s product line when they met a month ago.

I’m guessing now SD has something they can attempt to comply with. I suppose it’s also good that there’s some weight to the document. However it’s also the first release. So often revisions are needed to clarify things.

For me the positive thing in the article is the different types of platforms that are expected to be supported. Two days ago, we were at Android and maybe iOS eventually. I wonder if the solutions for those other platforms exist yet or are planned.

Still it sounds like it’s a way ahead as long as the method is achievable.

lonseidman
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Re: Encryption

Post by lonseidman »

Before everyone gets too excited, be sure to read the fine print that was buried at the end - bold emphasis mine:
The DVR specification is designed to work in concert with A3SA’s earlier established Broadcaster Encoding Rules, which govern how broadcasters can use the A3SA security technology with ATSC 3.0 content that is simulcast with corresponding ATSC 1.0 content, allowing viewers to decode and record broadcasts, make unlimited copies without expiration dates, and use common features like pause, rewind and fast-forward. The A3SA Encoding Rules also prevent downgrading of picture quality when connecting to legacy television sets.
What they are saying here is that so long as the ATSC 1.0 broadcast is out there they'll give you this functionality. After that is the rug pull where all of the restrictions they've dreamed of will come into effect.

Also missing: Mac, Windows, Xbox, PS5, etc. All the platforms where we can now freely spin up to watch OTA content are not yet supported. iOS isn't even supported in the spec let alone something real.

In other words I'm not optimistic here :).

bitemydust
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Re: Encryption

Post by bitemydust »

I would say this is the do or die moment. After having the 4k fkex for a year now, and a year of promises by SD of being able at some point to update it via firmware to decrypt, if it can't do it after having all the specifications it will either be able to do it or not. If not, well they are going to have a lot peeved customers including me. I like the product and have been patiently waiting, but if this doesn't work .....well I will do what a normal customer would do. Go to the competition.

Flyoffacliff
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Re: Encryption

Post by Flyoffacliff »

Just saw this on the news today and raced here to see if anyone posted about it yet. This all but confirms that encryption support is coming. I just hope it can be rolled out with a firmware update and not new hardware.

https://cordcuttersnews.com/atsc-3-0-ne ... run/?amp=1

tjp
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Re: Encryption

Post by tjp »

lonseidman wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:06 am Before everyone gets too excited, be sure to read the fine print that was buried at the end - bold emphasis mine:

What they are saying here is that so long as the ATSC 1.0 broadcast is out there they'll give you this functionality. After that is the rug pull where all of the restrictions they've dreamed of will come into effect.

Also missing: Mac, Windows, Xbox, PS5, etc. All the platforms where we can now freely spin up to watch OTA content are not yet supported. iOS isn't even supported in the spec let alone something real.

In other words I'm not optimistic here :).
Good catch. I missed that point.
Yeah, looks like whatever ATSC3.0 functionality we may get - it'll be temporary and could disappear when ATSC1.0 is shutdown.

HoTst2
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Re: Encryption

Post by HoTst2 »

tjp wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:18 am
lonseidman wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:06 am Before everyone gets too excited, be sure to read the fine print that was buried at the end - bold emphasis mine:

What they are saying here is that so long as the ATSC 1.0 broadcast is out there they'll give you this functionality. After that is the rug pull where all of the restrictions they've dreamed of will come into effect.

Also missing: Mac, Windows, Xbox, PS5, etc. All the platforms where we can now freely spin up to watch OTA content are not yet supported. iOS isn't even supported in the spec let alone something real.

In other words I'm not optimistic here :).
Good catch. I missed that point.
Yeah, looks like whatever ATSC3.0 functionality we may get - it'll be temporary and could disappear when ATSC1.0 is shutdown.
True ...

Though while I certainly appreciate Lon pointing this out. For now anyway, I feel we can afford to do the proverbial "cross that bridge when we come to it." Since I really don't see ATSC 1.0 going away anytime soon.

So let's just get DRM reception capability working on the current platforms on the 1.0/3.0 simulcast system as the priority now. And worry about what may happen 8-10 years down the road when ATSC 1.0 is shutdown later.

freway01
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Re: Encryption

Post by freway01 »

tjp wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:18 am
lonseidman wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:06 am Before everyone gets too excited, be sure to read the fine print that was buried at the end - bold emphasis mine:

What they are saying here is that so long as the ATSC 1.0 broadcast is out there they'll give you this functionality. After that is the rug pull where all of the restrictions they've dreamed of will come into effect.

Also missing: Mac, Windows, Xbox, PS5, etc. All the platforms where we can now freely spin up to watch OTA content are not yet supported. iOS isn't even supported in the spec let alone something real.

In other words I'm not optimistic here :).
Good catch. I missed that point.
Yeah, looks like whatever ATSC3.0 functionality we may get - it'll be temporary and could disappear when ATSC1.0 is shutdown.
I'm going to try to be more optimistic here. I know that 'lonseidman' has been a major advocate of getting the FCC to step-in to shut down this DRM crap, but if you look at the Cord Cutters article (https://cordcuttersnews.com/atsc-3-0-ne ... hdhomerun/), it has a picture of a Tab*o gateway DVR. I think that if we see an announcement from Tab*o in the near future that they are working on an ATSC 3.0 gateway tuner again, that will be a good sign because I believe that Tab*o is owned by E. W. Scripps, who is also a television broadcasting conglomerate and member of the A3SA. I don't think they would invest invest in an ATSC 3.0 gateway device, which is very similar to the HDHR devices, just to have the rug pulled out from under them.

In the meantime, we should all keep hammering the FCC by adding comments to Lon's FCC petition (https://www.change.org/p/tell-the-fcc-n ... broadcasts) and tell them that DRM will impact your TV viewing capabilities, and if they are allowed to turn on DRM now or once ATSC 1.0 is shutdown, consumers will lose their ability to watch OTA broadcast TV they way they want to watch it. You should also keep sending correspondences to your Congressional representatives letting them know that the FCC isn't stepping in to stop the television broadcasting conglomerates to control the 'public' airways by 'encrypting' their TV signals.

Freekick123
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Re: Encryption

Post by Freekick123 »

...with ATSC 3.0 content that is simulcast with corresponding ATSC 1.0 content...
The language here is very tricky. A scenario exists where, in 2027, the FCC reviews the substantially similar simulcasting rule and decides an ATSC 3.0 station can end its 1.0 simulcast on the host station. This would allow it to bypass the broadcast encoding rules. I don't know how this could happen without that station assuring the FCC there are no viewers losing service. My point is that, as slim as the chances of this happening, it could happen without a nationwide shutdown of ATSC 1.0.

jasonl
Silicondust
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Re: Encryption

Post by jasonl »

As has been pointed out previously, the "broadcast encoding rules" aren't laws or regulations, they're just what the broadcasters that make up A3SA agreed to. They can change those rules at any time if the majority of the voting committee agrees to change them.

yobyot
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Re: Encryption

Post by yobyot »

lonseidman wrote: Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:06 am Before everyone gets too excited, be sure to read the fine print that was buried at the end - bold emphasis mine:
The DVR specification is designed to work in concert with A3SA’s earlier established Broadcaster Encoding Rules, which govern how broadcasters can use the A3SA security technology with ATSC 3.0 content that is simulcast with corresponding ATSC 1.0 content, allowing viewers to decode and record broadcasts, make unlimited copies without expiration dates, and use common features like pause, rewind and fast-forward. The A3SA Encoding Rules also prevent downgrading of picture quality when connecting to legacy television sets.
What they are saying here is that so long as the ATSC 1.0 broadcast is out there they'll give you this functionality. After that is the rug pull where all of the restrictions they've dreamed of will come into effect.

Also missing: Mac, Windows, Xbox, PS5, etc. All the platforms where we can now freely spin up to watch OTA content are not yet supported. iOS isn't even supported in the spec let alone something real.

In other words I'm not optimistic here :).
@lonseidman: Love your YouTube channel.

There's another way to think about this. Yes, they broadcasters could renege on all their promises after the transition. But it's likely that doing so would create even more blowback than A3SA has generated so far. Also, by that time, and assuming that A3SA makes good on the promises in the press release, a market will have developed for ATSC 3.0 gateways and apps. A3SA cannot simply destroy that market by pulling the carpet out from under users -- it would be something DOJ/FTC/FCC couldn't ignore.

IOW, the hedge language you are concerned about might simply be masking a total retreat on DRM. In this case, I think S3SA and NAB have stumbled badly and need a way out.

danieljlevine
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Re: Encryption

Post by danieljlevine »

So, I guess we’re now waiting to hear back from SD on whether the path to approval with their gateway devices playing DRM live is clearer with this document in hand?

NedS
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Re: Encryption

Post by NedS »

danieljlevine wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:25 pm So, I guess we’re now waiting to hear back from SD on whether the path to approval with their gateway devices playing DRM live is clearer with this document in hand?
I think Nick plans on making a post, but the long story short is that not much has changed. They say one thing, but have yet to define *how* we are supposed to do that thing, or have requirements that make said thing nearly impossible. It's not bad news, it's just not new news.

freway01
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Re: Encryption

Post by freway01 »

NedS wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 7:15 pm
danieljlevine wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:25 pm So, I guess we’re now waiting to hear back from SD on whether the path to approval with their gateway devices playing DRM live is clearer with this document in hand?
I think Nick plans on making a post, but the long story short is that not much has changed. They say one thing, but have yet to define *how* we are supposed to do that thing, or have requirements that make said thing nearly impossible. It's not bad news, it's just not new news.
If this release is BS, why doesn't SD issue it's own press release stating this, and file a complaint to the ATSC committee and the FCC stating that their PR announcement failed to provide the requirements for a gateway DVR? Try putting the heat on the A3SA and call them out so consumers know that is the broadcasters who are holding up the process and not the equipment manufactures.

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