new Flex4k -- low signal strengths

[HenryGab]

Setup a medium directional antenna in my attic (~25' AGL; ~7' above insulation, 2' below apex of roof). I adjusted antenna to point ~280 (vs. true north, ~W) per antennaweb.org / rabbitear, and installed the silicondust 5G filter ... a single new 100' quad-shielded RG6 cable from antenna direct to the Flex 4k.

I am now looking to check / improve the numbers that matter. I have read that signal strength isn't as important as the signal/noise value. I'm not sure what `seq` stands for, but it's 100 for all my channels ... even when the `snq` is 59.

For example, even though I have pointed the antenna at ~280 degrees, snq on many channels it's pointed at are in the range of 59..66, (but still seq=100).

Is this setup "fine", or are there recommendations that will reduce later frustrations?


e.g., things I could do:
(1) Reduce length of the new RG6 from 100' to ~40' ... I hope to do this last, just to get all the cable length "just right".
(2) Remove the Silicondust 5G filter
(3) Add an EDA-FT08300 drop amp (54-1002 MHz, 3dB fwd gain)
(4) Adjust antenna angle more precisely(?)

Details:
Antenna type: GE 29884
My Rabbit Ears study result.

Channel scan results (+manually added directional notes):

Code: Select all

SCANNING: 605000000 (us-bcast:36)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=81 snq=59 seq=100)
Direction (True/Mag): 278.3 / 263.1
TSID: 0x0C3B
PROGRAM 3: 22.1 FOX13+
PROGRAM 4: 22.2 FOX13
PROGRAM 5: 22.3 AntTV
PROGRAM 7: 22.5 LiveNOW
PROGRAM 8: 16.2 TCN

SCANNING: 593000000 (us-bcast:34)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=74 snq=77 seq=100)
Direction (True/Mag): 179.4 / 164.2
TSID: 0x0C53
PROGRAM 1: 56.1 KWDK-DT
PROGRAM 2: 56.2 KWDK-ES
PROGRAM 3: 56.3 KWDK-SD

SCANNING: 587000000 (us-bcast:33)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=77 snq=63 seq=100)
Direction (True/Mag): 179.4 / 164.2
TSID: 0x0C1D
PROGRAM 3: 33.1 ION
PROGRAM 4: 33.2 CourtTV
PROGRAM 5: 33.3 Bounce
PROGRAM 6: 33.4 Grit
PROGRAM 7: 33.5 Defy TV
PROGRAM 8: 33.6 SCRIPPS
PROGRAM 9: 33.7 Jewelry
PROGRAM 10: 33.8 HSN

SCANNING: 575000000 (us-bcast:31)
LOCK: atsc3 (ss=64 snq=88 seq=100)    --- ATSC3
Direction (True/Mag): 281.0 / 265.8
PROGRAM 5001: 116.1 KONG (encrypted)
PROGRAM 5002: 105.1 KING (encrypted)
PROGRAM 5003: 113.1 KCPQ
PROGRAM 5004: 122.1 KZJO

SCANNING: 569000000 (us-bcast:30)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=82 snq=66 seq=100)
Direction (True/Mag): 280.9 / 265.7
TSID: 0x0C33
PROGRAM 3: 4.1 KOMO
PROGRAM 4: 4.2 Comet
PROGRAM 5: 4.3 Charge!
PROGRAM 6: 51.1 KUNS

SCANNING: 539000000 (us-bcast:25)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=69 snq=65 seq=100)
Direction (True/Mag): 280.9 / 265.7
TSID: 0x0C35
PROGRAM 3: 5.1 KING-HD
PROGRAM 4: 5.2 Crime
PROGRAM 5: 5.3 Quest
PROGRAM 6: 16.1 KONG-HD
PROGRAM 7: 5.4 CRIME
PROGRAM 8: 5.5 QVC2

SCANNING: 533000000 (us-bcast:24)
LOCK: atsc3 (ss=76 snq=100 seq=100)   --- ATSC3
Direction (True/Mag): 280.9 / 265.7
PROGRAM 5002: 104.1 KOMO (no data)
PROGRAM 5003: 107.1 KIRO (no data)
PROGRAM 5005: 151.1 KUNS

SCANNING: 527000000 (us-bcast:23)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=77 snq=75 seq=100)
Direction (True/Mag): 281.1 / 265.9
TSID: 0x0C37
PROGRAM 1: 7.1 KIRO 7
PROGRAM 2: 7.2 COZI
PROGRAM 3: 7.3 LAFF
PROGRAM 4: 51.2 TBD
PROGRAM 5: 51.3 STADIUM
PROGRAM 6: 7.4 TELEMUN

SCANNING: 497000000 (us-bcast:18)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=69 snq=97 seq=100)
Direction (True/Mag): 179.4 / 164.2
TSID: 0x0C37
PROGRAM 1: 7.1 KIRO 7
PROGRAM 2: 7.2 COZI
PROGRAM 3: 7.3 LAFF
PROGRAM 4: 51.2 TBD
PROGRAM 5: 51.3 STADIUM
PROGRAM 6: 7.4 TELEMUN

SCANNING: 485000000 (us-bcast:16)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=64 snq=64 seq=100)
Direction (True/Mag): 278.3 / 263.1
TSID: 0x0C3D
PROGRAM 1: 0 (no data)
PROGRAM 2: 0 (no data)
PROGRAM 3: 44.1 MeTV
PROGRAM 4: 44.2 MOVIES
PROGRAM 5: 44.3 HEROES
PROGRAM 6: 44.4 CATCHY
PROGRAM 7: 44.5 MeTV+
PROGRAM 8: 44.6 STORY
PROGRAM 14: 44.12 EMLW

SCANNING: 207000000 (us-bcast:12)
LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=81 seq=100)
Direction (True/Mag): 179.4 / 164.2
TSID: 0x26EB
PROGRAM 1001: 46.1 KUSE-CD
PROGRAM 1002: 46.2 KUSE-CD
PROGRAM 1003: 46.3 KUSE-CD
PROGRAM 1004: 46.4 KUSE-CD
PROGRAM 1005: 46.5 KUSE-CD
PROGRAM 1006: 46.6 KUSE-CD
PROGRAM 1007: 46.7 KUSE-CD

[jasonl]

(0) Replace antenna with bigger antenna

The rest of that is just fiddling around the edges. Just from those compass headings you're in Sammamish or thereabouts, and a large portion of that area doesn't have line of sight to the main tower locations on Queen Anne Hill and Capitol Hill because of the various local hills and valleys. Judging from those signal numbers, you're in one of those areas without line of sight. Improving the signal quality in any meaningful way means a bigger antenna with more elements.

[HenryGab]

I really appreciate that you told it straight, especially as the news isn't what folks want to hear. Thank you! I have two follow-up questions, but first:

Yes, you pinpointed the neighborhood. I had thought we had fairly good LoS, being at 400' elevation, with no obvious hills (although the trees are tall). However, when I traced a topographical map ... there's a 450' hill one mile away (tower is ~18mi away). So... I guess it's in the way. Bummer.

Q1. Am I correct in interpreting a `seq=100` measurement as meaning the signal was fully reconstructed (even for channels with low `snq`), such as via error correction?

Q2. What should I be targeting for a "good enough" `snq` measurement? (Good enough meaning that the error correction is statistically sufficient to correct the signal.)


"Bigger antenna with more elements" ... OK, will look into CM's 100-mile+ outdoor antennas.

Thanks!

[JDazell]

Do yourself a favor, Call and speak to the Tech Support/Sales guys at Antennas Direct. They are available Monday-Saturday @ 877-825-5572 https://store.antennasdirect.com/

I have spoken to a couple of them and they are excellent. They look at all kinds of specifics about where you live and the markets available to you.They take into account not just terrain but the surrounding obstacles like trees and buildings. They do make recommendations but they are not making any money off of you. You choose. They are simply an excellent resource.

[ebo]

I had thought we had fairly good LoS, being at 400' elevation, with no obvious hills (although the trees are tall). However, when I traced a topographical map ... there's a 450' hill one mile away (tower is ~18mi away). So... I guess it's in the way. Bummer

The RabbitEars page you posted a link to can show you if there are any mountains in the way. In the list, pick a station and click on its distance from you. That will show you the direct line from the station to you and, if necessary, the line over any mountains.

[jasonl]

seq (symbol quality) is a log scale of the number of uncorrected errors over the last second. It's not always a useful metric since digital TV has a really narrow band between "signal" and "no signal" so it tends to almost always end up at 100 or 0. Signal quality is the modulation error ratio scaled so that just barely being able to decode is 50% and basically perfect is 100%. The higher the better, but you'd ideally want to see at least 70% on the channels that matter.

At the ~$200 price point, I'd go for either the Winegard HD7698p or the Sky Blue BA200XF (https://www.ocalasatellite.com/shop/Sky ... p471559918).