Encryption

ATSC 3.0 Forum
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JDazell
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Re: Encryption

Post by JDazell »

Are you suggesting that SiliconDust get in the add on ATSC 3.0 Tuner market?

mountainman
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Re: Encryption

Post by mountainman »

[removed by moderator - see forum rules]

Cabal
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Re: Encryption

Post by Cabal »

mbirk1951 wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:17 am I wish SiliconDust could build an Android player module that could be DRM certified by A3SA to provide the secure path from tuner to HDMI output. It would only be the player and all the controls to the player would be handled by an Android app which would not be required to be certified by A3SA. So most of the user interface would be handled by this separate app and would be easy to update as needed, because no A3SA certification needed. Then if SD enabled third parties to use this player tuner/DVR, they could easily incorporate this into their applications. Everyone would need to purchase a SD subscription to use their player/tuner/recorder. Maybe this is not feasible but I don't see any third parties going through the A3SA certification process and SD application updates will be slowed because of A3SA recertifications.
Is DSperber registering new accounts? 😂

MikeBear
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Re: Encryption

Post by MikeBear »

Cabal wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:07 am
mbirk1951 wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:17 am I wish SiliconDust could build an Android player module that could be DRM certified by A3SA to provide the secure path from tuner to HDMI output. It would only be the player and all the controls to the player would be handled by an Android app which would not be required to be certified by A3SA. So most of the user interface would be handled by this separate app and would be easy to update as needed, because no A3SA certification needed. Then if SD enabled third parties to use this player tuner/DVR, they could easily incorporate this into their applications. Everyone would need to purchase a SD subscription to use their player/tuner/recorder. Maybe this is not feasible but I don't see any third parties going through the A3SA certification process and SD application updates will be slowed because of A3SA recertifications.
Is DSperber registering new accounts? 😂
I don't know, but he brings up an interesting idea. I wonder IF it actually has any possibilities of working, IF it was built? @nickk

Cabal
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Re: Encryption

Post by Cabal »

MikeBear wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:19 am
Cabal wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:07 am
mbirk1951 wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:17 am I wish SiliconDust could build an Android player module that could be DRM certified by A3SA to provide the secure path from tuner to HDMI output. It would only be the player and all the controls to the player would be handled by an Android app which would not be required to be certified by A3SA. So most of the user interface would be handled by this separate app and would be easy to update as needed, because no A3SA certification needed. Then if SD enabled third parties to use this player tuner/DVR, they could easily incorporate this into their applications. Everyone would need to purchase a SD subscription to use their player/tuner/recorder. Maybe this is not feasible but I don't see any third parties going through the A3SA certification process and SD application updates will be slowed because of A3SA recertifications.
Is DSperber registering new accounts? 😂
I don't know, but he brings up an interesting idea. I wonder IF it actually has any possibilities of working, IF it was built? @nickk
It was previously responded to by SD. Multiple times.

I think it was in the previous thread by the same name, can't find it now.

zippy
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Re: Encryption

Post by zippy »

Once SD gets the android solution certified wouldn't using the fire tv stick be the same secure solution.

anonymouse
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Re: Encryption

Post by anonymouse »

zippy wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:28 am Once SD gets the android solution certified wouldn't using the fire tv stick be the same secure solution.
Isn't this pretty much covered in the first post?
Will DRM encrypted ATSC 3.0 channels play on my Android or Fire TV device?
Using a gateway product - we expect it will be possible in the future but it is not possible today. The Google Widevine DRM decryption is possible but there are other requirements that are draft/incomplete at this time. There is activity happening.

zippy
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Re: Encryption

Post by zippy »

I'm sure those other A3SA requirements will mysteriously go away if SD builds it's own add-on.

foxbat121
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Re: Encryption

Post by foxbat121 »

Once SD gets the android solution certified wouldn't using the fire tv stick be the same secure solution.
Not so sure about that. I have my Android TV boxes that can playback CableCard encrypted channels for quite long time now while Fire devices can't.

kyl416
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Re: Encryption

Post by kyl416 »

CableLABS has different requirements than A3SA. Nickk or one of the others explained a while back, it had something to do with FireTV not using Google Play so it can't be Play Protect certified.

mbirk1951
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Re: Encryption

Post by mbirk1951 »

Cabal wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:07 am
mbirk1951 wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:17 am I wish SiliconDust could build an Android player module that could be DRM certified by A3SA to provide the secure path from tuner to HDMI output. It would only be the player and all the controls to the player would be handled by an Android app which would not be required to be certified by A3SA. So most of the user interface would be handled by this separate app and would be easy to update as needed, because no A3SA certification needed. Then if SD enabled third parties to use this player tuner/DVR, they could easily incorporate this into their applications. Everyone would need to purchase a SD subscription to use their player/tuner/recorder. Maybe this is not feasible but I don't see any third parties going through the A3SA certification process and SD application updates will be slowed because of A3SA recertifications.
Is DSperber registering new accounts? 😂
I am not talking about new hardware. I am suggesting a software player that runs on Android/Fire TV, like the Shield, Chromecast Google TV, Firestick 4k Max, Android phones and many others but the User Interface to control the player is on a separate Android/FireTV app on the same device the player is on. The User Interface app could tell the player what to request from the tuner but all other functions could be requested directly from the tuner, such as guide and recordings information.

Cabal
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Re: Encryption

Post by Cabal »

mbirk1951 wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 3:07 pm
Cabal wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:07 am
mbirk1951 wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:17 am I wish SiliconDust could build an Android player module that could be DRM certified by A3SA to provide the secure path from tuner to HDMI output. It would only be the player and all the controls to the player would be handled by an Android app which would not be required to be certified by A3SA. So most of the user interface would be handled by this separate app and would be easy to update as needed, because no A3SA certification needed. Then if SD enabled third parties to use this player tuner/DVR, they could easily incorporate this into their applications. Everyone would need to purchase a SD subscription to use their player/tuner/recorder. Maybe this is not feasible but I don't see any third parties going through the A3SA certification process and SD application updates will be slowed because of A3SA recertifications.
Is DSperber registering new accounts? 😂
I am not talking about new hardware. I am suggesting a software player that runs on Android/Fire TV, like the Shield, Chromecast Google TV, Firestick 4k Max, Android phones and many others but the User Interface to control the player is on a separate Android/FireTV app on the same device the player is on. The User Interface app could tell the player what to request from the tuner but all other functions could be requested directly from the tuner, such as guide and recordings information.
I don't see how any of that improves any of the points listed on the first page. The data still travels over your local network, requiring a bunch of A3SA baggage.

NedS
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Re: Encryption

Post by NedS »

mbirk1951 wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:17 am I wish SiliconDust could build an Android player module that could be DRM certified by A3SA to provide the secure path from tuner to HDMI output. It would only be the player and all the controls to the player would be handled by an Android app which would not be required to be certified by A3SA. So most of the user interface would be handled by this separate app and would be easy to update as needed, because no A3SA certification needed. Then if SD enabled third parties to use this player tuner/DVR, they could easily incorporate this into their applications. Everyone would need to purchase a SD subscription to use their player/tuner/recorder. Maybe this is not feasible but I don't see any third parties going through the A3SA certification process and SD application updates will be slowed because of A3SA recertifications.
It would be a very different product. "Converter boxes"/set-top-boxes is a category that already has options from other companies, has more limited applications than a gateway product, and a whole lot of new requirements/costs behind the scenes that don't exist for a gateway product. A set-top-box, even based on Android, is supposed to be locked down and not have third party apps on it. It would also be starting from almost zero, so it's not like such a product from us would come to market in the near-future.

Android is also a platform that we feel has a path forward, so there's no real point in us making an Android-based box at this point, when someone can go buy a $20 box from Walmart of Amazon and will eventually get DRM ATSC 3.0 channels.

As far as I know, app updates won't be slowed because of A3SA. We still deal with CableCARD certificates/certification (a new update will be coming out for those updated certs, because even CableCARD is an on-going thing), and that doesn't really affect normal updates.

gtb
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Re: Encryption

Post by gtb »

zippy wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:28 am Once SD gets the android solution certified wouldn't using the fire tv stick be the same secure solution.
While FireOS is currently based on the Android Open Source Project platform (based on rumors and posted job openings(*) at Amazon they are moving to a platform called Vega), the underlying device validation/certification is different. Google calls theirs the SafetyNet Attestation API, and I do not recall there being any direct equivalent for FireOS (although I have not spent much time looking at that ecosystem for such an API). Without a way to "Attest" that the device is appropriately certified/validated/protected (for example, not rooted, running a signed boot loader and OS, using HDCP 2.1, etc.) one is not going to be able to provide a solution to present content that require a full protected path. Should Vega actually materialize, other options may be available at some future point(**).


(*) All the tech companies have over the years posted non-existent job openings with the intent to mislead their competitors as to what they are actually working on.

(**) The new OS may make it easier, or harder, to create a viable app which includes support for a fully protected path for that platform. However, any discussion(s) Amazon may have had with selected partners about the details of the plans are under NDA, so even if SD was one of those selected partners, they could not say anything on any public forum.

raypenj
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Re: Encryption

Post by raypenj »

What features will we offer broadcasters that use DRM?
* We plan to offer broadcasters the ability to block the user from viewing the channel via their home network.

Um, how exactly do you envision the HD Homerun Flex 4k, .... excuse me, the NextGen TV certified HD Homerun Flex 4k, actually working without being able to work on a home network?

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