1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

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mjstonesr
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Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2023 1:58 pm

1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

Post by mjstonesr »

Can anyone tell me why the ethernet on the HDHomeRun is still only 100Mbps? When can we expect 1Gb or faster speeds?

baldursgate
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Re: 1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

Post by baldursgate »

I'm not sure what the bitrates are for ATSC 3.0 vs 1.0, but the HD channels in my area (ATSC 1.0) max out at around 13-14Mbps. Usually 10Mbps or less. So for my Flex 4K, if all 4 tuners are used simultaneously I'm nowhere near 100Mbps.

mjstonesr
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Re: 1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

Post by mjstonesr »

baldursgate,
Thanks for that info. I had no idea. I was thinking more along the lines of my internal LAN. If all my TV's are streaming from the HDHomeRun and available bandwidth was only 100Mbps, I was afraid it would cause issues.
I assumed that ATSC 3.0 would need more. Also, I was wondering if there was a 1Gbps model coming out. If so, the idea to wait for it crossed my mind. Again, thanks for the info!!

gtb
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Re: 1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

Post by gtb »

mjstonesr wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 8:24 am Can anyone tell me why the ethernet on the HDHomeRun is still only 100Mbps?
In addition to what baldursgate said, also be aware that many of the low(er) cost SoC's do not have the capability of a gigabit port (either at all, or without other compromises). There are always more expensive SoC's available with the available capabilities, but most people prefer a cheaper price especially when it is just wasted capability as the device cannot utilize it.

It should be acknowleged that if both ATSC 3.0 tuners in the latest device were tuning into two perfectly optimal PLPs that it could exceed 100Mb/s, but that would typically imply that there was one, and only one program on two different transmitters.

I would not be surprised that some future gen device might have more than two ATSC 3.0 tuners, and have a gigabit port. Today in the existing markets (with one lighthouse transmitter sharing with many stations) that is overkill (and you likely would not want to be paying for the unusable capabilities).

nickk
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Re: 1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

Post by nickk »

ATSC 3.0 is lower bitrate due to using HEVC video compression instead of MPEG2. 4K HEVC is comparable birate to 1080i MPEG2.

foxbat121
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Re: 1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

Post by foxbat121 »

HDhomerun Prime has the gigabit ethernet port. That is the cable card tuner.

ATSC 3.0 actually requires much less bandwidth than ATSC 1.0 due to the much more efficient compression (HEVC) compared to the dinasour on ATSC 1.0 (MPEG2). In my area, ATSC 1.0 stations typically has the bitrate around 15mbps and correspondent ATSC 3.0 stations have around 4 mbps only. So, 100mbps has sufficient bandwidth for all 4 tuners, the worst case is that they all tune to ATSC 1.0 stations. For now, ATSC 3.0 won't be an issue. But maybe in the future, stations may broadcast 4K (which typically around 23 mbps based on what I saw on FIOS 4K). Given you only have 2 ATSC 3.0 tuners, there is still plenty of room left in 100mbps bandwidth limit.

ebo
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Re: 1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

Post by ebo »

The HDHRs that really should have gigabit Ethernet are the ones that can record internally or on USB-connected drives. Users may want to copy some recordings to other computers and 100 Mbps is slow. USB drives could be moved to another device but it would have to be Linux or able to read Linux drive formats and most users don't have that.

jec6613
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Re: 1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

Post by jec6613 »

Not a super important use case yet, but as network technology marches on, there are frequently blocks of switchports that only run at 1 Gbps or faster on these newer multigig home AV switches.

It would be helpful if, on the next hardware refresh, Gigabit Ethernet came along for the ride, even if internally the SoC can't support most of the speed (a la Raspberry Pi).

rikd
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Re: 1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

Post by rikd »

jec6613 wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2023 6:45 am Not a super important use case yet, but as network technology marches on, there are frequently blocks of switchports that only run at 1 Gbps or faster on these newer multigig home AV switches.

It would be helpful if, on the next hardware refresh, Gigabit Ethernet came along for the ride, even if internally the SoC can't support most of the speed (a la Raspberry Pi).
Do you have something in mind as an example of a "there are frequently blocks of switchports that only run at 1 Gbps or faster on these newer multigig home AV switches"?

Not aware of any switch that specifically rules out 100Mbps operation - consumer, or other. Pretty much most PHYs in switches still support 10Mbps

Generally the lack of 10/100 is coming more from what the manufacturer is willing to spend on text real estate on the marketing
i.e. it's easier/quicker to sell 1/2.5/5/10Gbps that 10/100/1000/2500/5000/10000Mbps - especially since most people don't care about 10/100 anymore.

jec6613
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Re: 1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

Post by jec6613 »

rikd wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:31 am Do you have something in mind as an example of a "there are frequently blocks of switchports that only run at 1 Gbps or faster on these newer multigig home AV switches"?
Several of the Netgear M4250, M4300, M4350, and M4500 switches - the ones certified for Crestron. 10 Mbps support is dropped on ports numbered above 16 on almost all of them, and 100 Mbps is lacking blocks of ports on their 10/5/2.5/1 Gbps models. It's all in the data sheets.

rikd
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Re: 1Gbps or faster Ethernet?

Post by rikd »

jec6613 wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 5:41 am
rikd wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2023 10:31 am Do you have something in mind as an example of a "there are frequently blocks of switchports that only run at 1 Gbps or faster on these newer multigig home AV switches"?
Several of the Netgear M4250, M4300, M4350, and M4500 switches - the ones certified for Crestron. 10 Mbps support is dropped on ports numbered above 16 on almost all of them, and 100 Mbps is lacking blocks of ports on their 10/5/2.5/1 Gbps models. It's all in the data sheets.
Interesting switches.
Thanks for the pointer.

I don't see anywhere that it is called out specifically that 100Mbps isn't supported.
Page 33 (and 3 & 4) of the spec shows all RJ45 support 100Mbps
While yes the SFP+ ports don't support anything below 1G which is expected for SFP+
Is interesting that no 10M specifically mentioned in the 10G capable RJ45 - but then there is no explicit mention of no 10M/Full like we have for the 10M/Half

They say 10Mbps Half Duplex is not supported on the 1G models. Not just 10Mbps
Since that is specifically called out I would assume that 10Mbps Full Duplex is supported on those ports (marketing doesn't like to spend words unless they have to)
Either way - not many 10M/Full on the market these days..
Main use of 10Mbps half duplex is when devices go into idle/standby and keep the NIC 'warmed' for power or wakeup.
Wonder if these ports would completely drop the power to such idle devices?!
Probably! - And hence maybe the warning about those specific ports?!

Again - thanks
something to keep an eye on.

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