Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Help and support for HDHomeRun DVR and HDHomeRun software for Windows 10, Mac, Android, XBox, etc.
ronj
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Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by ronj »

Hurricane Ian just blew through here and the power has been out for over a day, but not just the power, internet service too. So I fire up the generator, we have power. I have power, a TV Antenna, my home network, the HDHR Flex 4K, phone, ipad, and a working LG TV..... but I can't receive any Live TV in an emergency situation or playback any DVR content. Why? Because every single HDHR application requires an internet connection!

LG shows an "Unable to load (-202), Server certificate cannot be trusted. Please contact content provider." error upon launching the HDHR application that is already installed.
iOS shows the error code from my gateway device when you try to access the internet and it is unavailable.

I urge you to please fix this. The situation I describe above is not uncommon. The local network is up and running, everything is accessible -Flex 4K, DVR storage, Antenna - except the internet. There's no reason that a person shouldn't be able to watch Live TV (priority 0) or even recorded content (priority 1) during an emergency where there is no internet service! This is a huge deficiency that can be easily fixed with some try/catch logic in software.

rpcameron
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by rpcameron »

Every time there is a major situation that leads to prolonged outages this is brought up.

In short, there is nothing stopping the hardware from working; just use some other software, as SD's requires an active internet connection.

ronj
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by ronj »

rpcameron wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:48 am Every time there is a major situation that leads to prolonged outages this is brought up.
Interesting that this has been reported before. Hopefully it will hit the top of the priority stack for SD this time.
rpcameron wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:48 am In short, there is nothing stopping the hardware from working; just use some other software, as SD's requires an active internet connection.
I think that's a good workaround for those who might know this up front and plan by downloading the "extra" software. However, it should not be considered the fix. SD is working hard to provide a great solution. Does it have bugs, yes it does. That said, if they care...and I believe they do....they'll take the feedback and bug reports on this forum and address each of them. That said, I've only been a customer for a month or two now (former TiVo user) so I hope my faith in their level of care is warranted. If you look at my posts I've been reporting all of the bugs and issues I've run into....including this one.

nickk
Silicondust
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by nickk »

BTW - you should be able to use the DLNA Media player feature of your smart TV to watch HDHomeRun channels without internet.

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ebo
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by ebo »

Another workaround to watch live TV: connect your antenna directly to your LG TV and scan for channels.

ronj
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by ronj »

ebo wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:53 am Another workaround to watch live TV: connect your antenna directly to your LG TV and scan for channels.
I’d have to run a line to the TV to do that. That’s one reason I got the HDHR … to avoid all of that.

rpcameron
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by rpcameron »

nickk wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:26 am BTW - you should be able to use the DLNA Media player feature of your smart TV to watch HDHomeRun channels without internet.
For users without "smart" TVs, and those whose tuners and/or antennas are nowhere near their TVs, this is still a significant limitation of SiliconDust's software.

[removed by moderator - see forum rules]

kyl416
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by kyl416 »

rpcameron wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:43 am
nickk wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:26 am BTW - you should be able to use the DLNA Media player feature of your smart TV to watch HDHomeRun channels without internet.
For users without "smart" TVs, and those whose tuners and/or antennas are nowhere near their TVs, this is still a significant limitation of SiliconDust's software.
If a user doesn't have a smart TV, that means they already have to use an external network device for playback like Apple TV, an Android TV powered device like GoogleTV, FireTV, Nvidia Shield or Onn, a game console or Roku, and all of those devices either have native DLNA/UPnP support or the ability to install an app like VLC to support it.

EddieP
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by EddieP »

nickk wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:26 am BTW - you should be able to use the DLNA Media player feature of your smart TV to watch HDHomeRun channels without internet.
All other DVR software I use .. I am able to use their client software to watch recordings without internet. HDHomeRun falls way short this has been going on for years and all we keep getting are promises that it will be looked at.

Try telling Mom and POP that are not technical use DLNA :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

SpencerC
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by SpencerC »

ronj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:24 am Hurricane Ian just blew through here and the power has been out for over a day, but not just the power, internet service too. So I fire up the generator, we have power. I have power, a TV Antenna, my home network, the HDHR Flex 4K, phone, ipad, and a working LG TV..... but I can't receive any Live TV in an emergency situation or playback any DVR content. Why? Because every single HDHR application requires an internet connection!

LG shows an "Unable to load (-202), Server certificate cannot be trusted. Please contact content provider." error upon launching the HDHR application that is already installed.
iOS shows the error code from my gateway device when you try to access the internet and it is unavailable.

I urge you to please fix this. The situation I describe above is not uncommon. The local network is up and running, everything is accessible -Flex 4K, DVR storage, Antenna - except the internet. There's no reason that a person shouldn't be able to watch Live TV (priority 0) or even recorded content (priority 1) during an emergency where there is no internet service! This is a huge deficiency that can be easily fixed with some try/catch logic in software.
On a side note, just navigate to the folder where you save your recordings and watch with Windows Media Player or VLC Media player. No need for the HDHomeRun software to watch recordings. I can't help you with LiveTV though.

ronj
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by ronj »

SpencerC wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:48 pm On a side note, just navigate to the folder where you save your recordings and watch with Windows Media Player or VLC Media player. No need for the HDHomeRun software to watch recordings. I can't help you with LiveTV though.
Thanks. My drive isn't visible on the network. It's a USB drive attached directly to the Flex 4K. I can "download" the files one at a time to my mac (play.mpg) and play them...but it's certainly not the user experience I think SD, nor I, am shooting for.

InIrons
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by InIrons »

Same issue with Firetv devices, Nvidia and I imagine a few others. They like to connect to their respective mother ships.

SpiceWare
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by SpiceWare »

SpencerC wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:48 pm VLC Media player ... I can't help you with LiveTV though.
VLC works for Live TV.
  • When you launch VLC the panel on the left has sections labelled LIBRARY, MY COMPUTER, LOCAL NETWORK, and INTERNET.
  • Click on Universal Plug'n'Play in LOCAL NETWORK section and your HDHomeRun tuners will appear in a list on the right.
  • Double click a tuner to see the channels.
  • Double click a channel to watch it.
Only issue I've encountered is the ATSC 3.0 channels do not have audio, but that's because my computer does not support the audio codec.

mike808
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by mike808 »

I don't know if this helps, but you can access the tuners directly via HTTP. The URL is "http://<DeviceID>.local/lineup.html".
e.g. My Extend Device ID is 10522C9A, so the URL is http://10522c9a.local/lineup.html

If you know the tuner's IP address, you can get to the device's default page at "http://<IPaddress>/".
e.g. http://192.168.2.28/

I don't know if the lineup page requires a call to the SiliconDust "mothership" to display things like the channel call signs and channel numbers. I don't know if they can function autonomously on power-on without connecting to SD either. I would hope the device caches the last connection info for precisely that reason.

However, my point is the lineup page does have a link to view that channel. You can save that URL for the channel in the lineup page as a bookmark to prepare in advance for a future outage. Problem solved. You've prepared your network and TVs and computers to work without power or internet, so adding the task of creating a folder with the bookmarks to your channels should be a simple matter. The link is to the direct MPEG stream from the device, so you don't want to "view" the channel URL in a browser (it will ask you to save a file, but it is really a raw stream). You will need to open the URL with VLC.

However, I do hear you that SD could make that a little easier (or better documented), or someone could write a simple tool to do what I just described and automate creating that "folder of bookmarks" for just such scenarios (scraping https://ipv4-api.hdhomerun.com/discover would probably work).

The latest software does have a new "HDHomeRun Config GUI" program that is more of a raw signal / tuner diagnostic tool, but if you tune it to a channel, you can click on the "View" button when it locks onto a channel and it will launch VLC to view the channel directly from the UDP stream.

ronj
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Re: Huge Design Deficiency in HDHR Software Architecture - Hurricane Ian

Post by ronj »

mike808 wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:07 am I don't know if this helps, but you can access the tuners directly via HTTP. The URL is "http://<DeviceID>.local/lineup.html".
e.g. My Extend Device ID is 10522C9A, so the URL is http://10522c9a.local/lineup.html

If you know the tuner's IP address, you can get to the device's default page at "http://<IPaddress>/".
e.g. http://192.168.2.28/

I don't know if the lineup page requires a call to the SiliconDust "mothership" to display things like the channel call signs and channel numbers. I don't know if they can function autonomously on power-on without connecting to SD either. I would hope the device caches the last connection info for precisely that reason.

However, my point is the lineup page does have a link to view that channel. You can save that URL for the channel in the lineup page as a bookmark to prepare in advance for a future outage. Problem solved. You've prepared your network and TVs and computers to work without power or internet, so adding the task of creating a folder with the bookmarks to your channels should be a simple matter. The link is to the direct MPEG stream from the device, so you don't want to "view" the channel URL in a browser (it will ask you to save a file, but it is really a raw stream). You will need to open the URL with VLC.

However, I do hear you that SD could make that a little easier (or better documented), or someone could write a simple tool to do what I just described and automate creating that "folder of bookmarks" for just such scenarios (scraping https://ipv4-api.hdhomerun.com/discover would probably work).

The latest software does have a new "HDHomeRun Config GUI" program that is more of a raw signal / tuner diagnostic tool, but if you tune it to a channel, you can click on the "View" button when it locks onto a channel and it will launch VLC to view the channel directly from the UDP stream.
Thanks for the workaround. The application should just work. If they just cached this stuff and "if the internet is not available, use the cache" I think we'd have a consumer ready solution.

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