ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

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dantheman
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ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by dantheman »

I noticed recently on rabbitears.info that there were finally (two) Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo stations listed as apparently going on-air with ATSC 3.0 this past April 22nd. In actuality I think they are the same networks on different frequencies. I have a Connect Duo tuner but suddenly recently I started receiving the same network (Channel 15 MyNetwork TV) in ATSC 1.0 whereas previously the signal had been too weak. So apparently there has been some moving around of things. I'm considering getting a HomeRun 4K tuner but I'm wondering if anyone knows exacly what channels are being broadcast on those two ATSC 3.0 stations right now. I don't get all ATSC 1.0 stations in the area very stably right now where I am and I'm wondering if maybe some of those same networks are being broadcast among the ATSC 3.0 channels as I may try to see if the more robust error correction of ATSC 3.0 will allow me to receive those particular stations without much issue. Not to mention that I might not have to convert MPEG2 broadcast recordings to HEVC for Plex anymore as I'm doing now with MCEBuddy since they'd already be in that format.

By the way other NextGen TV FCC applications for the area were approved on April 16.

ehntoo
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Re: ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by ehntoo »

WXSP-CD (physical chanel 15) seems to have gone on-air with an ATSC 3 signal some time yesterday afternoon (April 30). Looks like WOLP-CD is still off-air for the transition.

For the moment, it seems WXSP-CD is carrying all of the following: WXSP (the MyNetwork TV primary stream), WWMT, WOTV, WXMI, WOOD:

Code: Select all

$ hdhomerun_config XXXXXXXX get /tuner1/streaminfo
5001: 115.4 WXSP-CD (no data)
5002: 108.1 WOOD TV (no data)
5003: 141.1 WOTV (no data)
5004: 103.1 CBS (no data)
5005: 117.1 FOX11DT (no data)

$ hdhomerun_config XXXXXXXX get /tuner1/plpinfo
0: sfi=0 mod=qam16 cod=9/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=1
2: sfi=0 mod=qam16 cod=9/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=0 lock=1
1: sfi=1 mod=qam256 cod=11/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=0

WWMT is being carried on PLP 2, and being qam16 it seems quite robust. All other channels seem to be muxed on PLP 1 and I can only receive them intermittently with my current (pretty terrible) antenna placement.

dantheman
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Re: ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by dantheman »

Thank you for the info! I'm in Plainwell and I currently get 33 ATSC 1.0 channels on my Connect Duo with a window antenna, although some of them are not stable. Before the recent change with channel 15 I couldn't get that channel so I'm wondering if they swapped towers or something.

jasonl
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Re: ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by jasonl »

15.1 is now carried in ATSC 1 on WOOD's broadcast. 15.2 is on WXMI and 15.3 on WWMT.

Moose359
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Re: ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by Moose359 »

ehntoo wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:46 am WXSP-CD (physical chanel 15) seems to have gone on-air with an ATSC 3 signal some time yesterday afternoon (April 30). Looks like WOLP-CD is still off-air for the transition.

For the moment, it seems WXSP-CD is carrying all of the following: WXSP (the MyNetwork TV primary stream), WWMT, WOTV, WXMI, WOOD:

Code: Select all

$ hdhomerun_config XXXXXXXX get /tuner1/streaminfo
5001: 115.4 WXSP-CD (no data)
5002: 108.1 WOOD TV (no data)
5003: 141.1 WOTV (no data)
5004: 103.1 CBS (no data)
5005: 117.1 FOX11DT (no data)

$ hdhomerun_config XXXXXXXX get /tuner1/plpinfo
0: sfi=0 mod=qam16 cod=9/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=1
2: sfi=0 mod=qam16 cod=9/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=0 lock=1
1: sfi=1 mod=qam256 cod=11/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=0

WWMT is being carried on PLP 2, and being qam16 it seems quite robust. All other channels seem to be muxed on PLP 1 and I can only receive them intermittently with my current (pretty terrible) antenna placement.
How far away do you live? I live 23 miles away from the tower and I can only get WWMT with my VHF and UHF setup. I wonder if they are at a reduced power for some reason.

kyl416
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Re: ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by kyl416 »

WXSP-CD is a Class A signal, which is limited to 15 kW. 23 miles out likely puts you in fringe territory depending on the terrain and your antenna, so you can only decode the QAM 16 PLP but not the QAM 256 one:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php ... te=1&map=Y

Depending on where you are you might have better luck when their sister station WOLP-CD fires up their ATSC 3.0 services on RF 35 from WOOD's tower in Middleville, which will have the same lineup as WXSP:
https://www.rabbitears.info/contour.php ... te=1&map=Y

Moose359
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Re: ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by Moose359 »

I am much closer to the WXSP tower. You may be right that I'm just too far away. Its just a shame because With a hi-VHF antenna not even pointed directly at the station I got a solid signal back when the station was 1.0

ehntoo
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Re: ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by ehntoo »

Moose359 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:36 am
ehntoo wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:46 am WXSP-CD (physical chanel 15) seems to have gone on-air with an ATSC 3 signal some time yesterday afternoon (April 30). Looks like WOLP-CD is still off-air for the transition.

For the moment, it seems WXSP-CD is carrying all of the following: WXSP (the MyNetwork TV primary stream), WWMT, WOTV, WXMI, WOOD:

Code: Select all

$ hdhomerun_config XXXXXXXX get /tuner1/streaminfo
5001: 115.4 WXSP-CD (no data)
5002: 108.1 WOOD TV (no data)
5003: 141.1 WOTV (no data)
5004: 103.1 CBS (no data)
5005: 117.1 FOX11DT (no data)

$ hdhomerun_config XXXXXXXX get /tuner1/plpinfo
0: sfi=0 mod=qam16 cod=9/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=1
2: sfi=0 mod=qam16 cod=9/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=0 lock=1
1: sfi=1 mod=qam256 cod=11/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=0

WWMT is being carried on PLP 2, and being qam16 it seems quite robust. All other channels seem to be muxed on PLP 1 and I can only receive them intermittently with my current (pretty terrible) antenna placement.
How far away do you live? I live 23 miles away from the tower and I can only get WWMT with my VHF and UHF setup. I wonder if they are at a reduced power for some reason.
I'm only ~9.5 miles from the WXSP tower, but based on my reception pre-transition I expect I'll get a better signal from WOLP on rf35 since there's fewer trees/buildings from my location, despite their tower being ~16.5 miles away. I'm in SE Grand Rapids, FWIW.

Moose359
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Re: ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by Moose359 »

I moved my UHF antenna to a different mount I had and was able to pull in PLP1!

goofnroxx
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Re: ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by goofnroxx »

Anybody having issues with the WOOD subchannel? All the other stations play fine, but WOOD takes forever to start playing, and when it does it's a slideshow with no audio.

I'm ~9 miles with a less than ideal antenna setup, but I consistently get +90% signal quality and 100% symbol quality.

xmguy
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Re: ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by xmguy »

ehntoo wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 9:46 am WXSP-CD (physical chanel 15) seems to have gone on-air with an ATSC 3 signal some time yesterday afternoon (April 30). Looks like WOLP-CD is still off-air for the transition.

For the moment, it seems WXSP-CD is carrying all of the following: WXSP (the MyNetwork TV primary stream), WWMT, WOTV, WXMI, WOOD:

Code: Select all

$ hdhomerun_config XXXXXXXX get /tuner1/streaminfo
5001: 115.4 WXSP-CD (no data)
5002: 108.1 WOOD TV (no data)
5003: 141.1 WOTV (no data)
5004: 103.1 CBS (no data)
5005: 117.1 FOX11DT (no data)

$ hdhomerun_config XXXXXXXX get /tuner1/plpinfo
0: sfi=0 mod=qam16 cod=9/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=1
2: sfi=0 mod=qam16 cod=9/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=0 lock=1
1: sfi=1 mod=qam256 cod=11/15 layer=core ti=hti lls=0

WWMT is being carried on PLP 2, and being qam16 it seems quite robust. All other channels seem to be muxed on PLP 1 and I can only receive them intermittently with my current (pretty terrible) antenna placement.
Seeing that QAM256 is made for "City Wide" mainly. I find it odd most stations are using it when they're DMA is atleast 65 miles, that's is crazy. I am in the same boat. My Nashville, TN DMA is the same. I can get QAM16 no problem. I'm 60-70 miles away in a rural area. I can only get 256 here an there. I'm glad to see other broadcasters are using the QAM16 layer more though. It will be better for us all when 16 is available for all channels, and the lighthouse period is done.

bvanderhaar
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Re: ATSC 3.0 on air in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo/Battle Creek Michigan?

Post by bvanderhaar »

goofnroxx wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:57 pm Anybody having issues with the WOOD subchannel? All the other stations play fine, but WOOD takes forever to start playing, and when it does it's a slideshow with no audio.

I'm ~9 miles with a less than ideal antenna setup, but I consistently get +90% signal quality and 100% symbol quality.
I'm experiencing the same behavior. The ATSC3 WOOD sub channel has artifacts (that look like poor signal to me) when saved; despite acceptable signal values and FOX17DT (117.1), WXSP-CD (115.4), and CBS (103.1) resulting streams playback flawlessly in VLC.

Stream/Debug info:

Code: Select all

hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF set /tuner0/channel atsc3:479000000
hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF get /tuner0/debug
tun: ch=atsc3:479000000:1 lock=atsc3:479000000 ss=97 snq=100 seq=100 dbg=7-118/-3057
dev: bps=11550720 resync=0 overflow=0
ts:  bps=0 te=0 crc=0
net: bps=0 pps=0 err=0 stop=0
Code used to save broadcasts, I saved ~1 minute streams:

Code: Select all

hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF set /tuner0/channel atsc3:479000000
hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF set /tuner0/program 5001
hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF save /tuner0 atsc3-wxsp-cd.ts
hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF set /tuner0/program 5002
hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF save /tuner0 atsc3-wood.ts
hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF set /tuner0/program 5004
hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF save /tuner0 atsc3-cbs.ts
hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF set /tuner0/program 5005
hdhomerun_config FFFFFFFF save /tuner0 atsc3-fox17dt.ts

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