ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

ATSC 3.0 Forum
sullim4
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by sullim4 »

Just got the Connect 4k yesterday. I've got it hooked up to my existing setup with Channels DVR. I'm running the 20210105 firmware. A few observations:

- KCPQ's atsc3 feed has 100% strength/signal quality/symbol quality, but the stream appears to have no data based on the Channels DVR logs, and tuning it using Channels or the HDHR Win10 app give a black screen:

2021/01/16 16:25:50.379793 [ERR] Failed to start stream for ch113.1: HDHomeRun: 807 No Video Data
2021/01/16 16:25:50.394100 [HLS] Couldn't generate stream playlist for ch113.1-dANY-ip192.168.29.100: HDHomeRun: 807 No Video Data

I was really hoping to pull in FOX since we don't get great reception on VHF 13, anyone else seeing this?

- KING's atsc3 feed seems like it's lower fps or something, I'm guessing this is on the station's end. During the game last night, the image seemed blurred/soft at times, it looked kind of like a web stream if you know what I mean. The 1.0 feed has macro blocking during fast action but that's been reproducing since they shuffled things around and put KING/KONG on the same physical channel.

- I'm watching CLE/KC on KIRO. The PQ is really good on the atsc3 feed, but I concur with others about the lousy sound quality, and the video/audio just drop out for a few milliseconds fairly frequently. This seems like it's on the station's end as well.

Overall, it like there are a number of issues to work though, but it's exciting to see this come online!

CBme
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by CBme »

sullim4 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:23 pm Just got the Connect 4k yesterday. I've got it hooked up to my existing setup with Channels DVR. I'm running the 20210105 firmware. A few observations:

- KCPQ's atsc3 feed has 100% strength/signal quality/symbol quality, but the stream appears to have no data based on the Channels DVR logs, and tuning it using Channels or the HDHR Win10 app give a black screen:

2021/01/16 16:25:50.379793 [ERR] Failed to start stream for ch113.1: HDHomeRun: 807 No Video Data
2021/01/16 16:25:50.394100 [HLS] Couldn't generate stream playlist for ch113.1-dANY-ip192.168.29.100: HDHomeRun: 807 No Video Data

I was really hoping to pull in FOX since we don't get great reception on VHF 13, anyone else seeing this?

- KING's atsc3 feed seems like it's lower fps or something, I'm guessing this is on the station's end. During the game last night, the image seemed blurred/soft at times, it looked kind of like a web stream if you know what I mean. The 1.0 feed has macro blocking during fast action but that's been reproducing since they shuffled things around and put KING/KONG on the same physical channel.

- I'm watching CLE/KC on KIRO. The PQ is really good on the atsc3 feed, but I concur with others about the lousy sound quality, and the video/audio just drop out for a few milliseconds fairly frequently. This seems like it's on the station's end as well.

Overall, it like there are a number of issues to work though, but it's exciting to see this come online!
Are you currently able to tune CH31: 105, 113 116, 122? Madsushi isn't able to and I'm not able to on the beta firmware (do not install this yet).

For KCPQ atsc 1.0, try 22.2 if 13.1 is giving you reception problems. It is a duplicate 720 broadcast being done on a different physical CH36 broadcasting at higher power (according to rabbit ears). 13.1 is on physical ch22 now.

sullim4
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:05 pm
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by sullim4 »

Funny you ask. I did a closer look:

- I can tune 105 with ChannelsDVR, but I can't tune it with the HDHR Win10 app.
- I cannot tune 113 with either app.
- I cannot tune 116 with either app.
- I cannot tune 122 with either app.

I don't really watch KONG or JoeTV so I didn't notice until now :). So it seems like KING on Channels is the only one I can tune on 31.

CBme
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by CBme »

sullim4 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:44 pm Funny you ask. I did a closer look:

- I can tune 105 with ChannelsDVR, but I can't tune it with the HDHR Win10 app.
- I cannot tune 113 with either app.
- I cannot tune 116 with either app.
- I cannot tune 122 with either app.

I don't really watch KONG or JoeTV so I didn't notice until now :). So it seems like KING on Channels is the only one I can tune on 31.
Thanks for validating. For 105 with ChannelsDRV, can you take a look at HDHR config_GUI when you have it playing and make sure it is actually tuning Ch31 105 and not CH25 5.1?
Last edited by CBme on Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jmcgeejr
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by jmcgeejr »

Watching Chiefs/Browns, anyone else noticing the audio going from quiet to loud randomly?

CBme
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by CBme »

jmcgeejr wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:15 pm Watching Chiefs/Browns, anyone else noticing the audio going from quiet to loud randomly?
Listened on my PC during parts of it and didn't notice any change. It is interesting that the audio on the PC is now even for two speakers instead of just the left side. It is still shoved in the front left channel for my main 5.1 system. If you are listening to it from surround system, is your receiver doing anything, like switching to stereo briefly, when it gets loud?
Last edited by CBme on Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sullim4
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by sullim4 »

CBme wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:12 pm
sullim4 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:44 pm Funny you ask. I did a closer look:

- I can tune 105 with ChannelsDVR, but I can't tune it with the HDHR Win10 app.
- I cannot tune 113 with either app.
- I cannot tune 116 with either app.
- I cannot tune 122 with either app.

I don't really watch KONG or JoeTV so I didn't notice until now :). So it seems like KING on Channels is the only one I can tune on 31.
Thanks for validating. For 105 with ChannelsDRV, can you take a look at HDHR config_GUI when you have it playing and make sure it is actually tuning Ch31 105 and not CH25 5.1?
It's tuning to 105:

Tuner 0 Status
Virtual Channel 105.1 KING
Frequency 575.000 MHz
Program Number 5002
Modulation Lock atsc3
Signal Strength 100%
Signal Quality 94%
Symbol Quality 100%
Streaming Rate none
Resource Lock 192.168.29.196

Edited to add: Ignore the 'none' streaming rate above. I copy/pasted it while it was in the process of tuning, which worked fine. It's streaming around 7Mbps.

jmcgeejr
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by jmcgeejr »

CBme wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:06 pm
jmcgeejr wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:15 pm Watching Chiefs/Browns, anyone else noticing the audio going from quiet to loud randomly?
Listened on my PC during parts of it and didn't notice any change. It is interesting that the audio on the PC is now even for two speakers instead of just the left side. It is still shoved in the front left channel for my main 5.1 system. If you are listening to it from surround system, is your receiver doing anything, like switching to stereo briefly, when it gets loud?
This was via my shield on my TV without surround sound.

sullim4
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by sullim4 »

Well, I just upgraded to the new firmware (0118), and I still get 105 (KING) if I tune to it via Channels DVR.

However, perhaps more interesting, HDHR thinks it isn't streaming anything, as it doesn't show up as a tuned channel on the tuner status page. In the logs, I see 'no video data':

20210119-04:59:09 Tuner: invalid channel 105.1 KING (atsc3:575MHz-5002)
20210119-04:59:09 HTTP: rejecting request from 192.168.29.57 - tune failed
20210119-04:59:09 HTTP: rejecting request from 192.168.29.57 - tuner in use
20210119-04:59:09 Tuner: tuner1 tuning 105.1 KING (atsc3:575MHz-5002)
20210119-04:59:15 HTTP: rejecting request from 192.168.29.57 - no video data
20210119-04:59:15 Tuner: tuner1 http stream ended (requested time reached)

So it does seem like something strange is going on here. I've also lost 104 (KOMO) and 107 (KIRO), but the error there is signal strength (even though it's a clear night and I was pulling both of these in fine before the firmware upgrade).

ATSC1 channels tune fine, and I'm pleasantly surprised that I can reliably pull in KCPQ now with the new tuner, using the ch22 repeater off of cap hill.

CBme
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by CBme »

sullim4 wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:25 pm Well, I just upgraded to the new firmware (0118), and I still get 105 (KING) if I tune to it via Channels DVR.

However, perhaps more interesting, HDHR thinks it isn't streaming anything, as it doesn't show up as a tuned channel on the tuner status page. In the logs, I see 'no video data':

20210119-04:59:09 Tuner: invalid channel 105.1 KING (atsc3:575MHz-5002)
20210119-04:59:09 HTTP: rejecting request from 192.168.29.57 - tune failed
20210119-04:59:09 HTTP: rejecting request from 192.168.29.57 - tuner in use
20210119-04:59:09 Tuner: tuner1 tuning 105.1 KING (atsc3:575MHz-5002)
20210119-04:59:15 HTTP: rejecting request from 192.168.29.57 - no video data
20210119-04:59:15 Tuner: tuner1 http stream ended (requested time reached)

So it does seem like something strange is going on here. I've also lost 104 (KOMO) and 107 (KIRO), but the error there is signal strength (even though it's a clear night and I was pulling both of these in fine before the firmware upgrade).

ATSC1 channels tune fine, and I'm pleasantly surprised that I can reliably pull in KCPQ now with the new tuner, using the ch22 repeater off of cap hill.
105 is certainly strange. I don't have Channels to try to repro though I don't think that wouldn't tell us anything useful even if I did. We just have to wait until Nick comes back with a fix for handling whatever Ch31 changed.
For 24, I'm not seeing anything different with the current firmware. I'm still at 100% and still having intermittent tuning failures in the app on 104 and 107 though it will eventually tune if I keep going back to it.

Nounours
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by Nounours »

Just wanted to share my findings regarding some tests I've done over the weekend with KOMO (104.1) and KIRO (107.1) using the HDHomeRun 4K.

I setup a cheap omnidirectional antenna in my car (still need to figure out a way to securely set it up outside to the rack), and connected the HDHomeRun 4K tuner directly to my laptop. Then my wife and I took a drive around to see if she could actually watch TV on the road.

Long story short, it seems to work rather well, even on the highway at 60mph and I bet getting the antenna up on the roof will likely work even better. I wonder if some day cars and mobile homes might have ATSC3.0-based entertainment built-in for their passengers to enjoy. :)

Anyways, I had an unrelated question for all of you: I'm seeing a discrepancy between 104.1 and 107.1 in terms of signal quality and symbol quality, both on the road and at home. Note that the signal strength and SNR are the same, but KOMO seemed to consistently have a higher signal quality and symbol quality than KIRO. Aren't they broadcasted from the same antenna and frequency?

Thank you in advance.

stalecheetos
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by stalecheetos »

CBme wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:32 pm
sullim4 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:23 pm I was really hoping to pull in FOX since we don't get great reception on VHF 13, anyone else seeing this?
Are you currently able to tune CH31: 105, 113 116, 122? Madsushi isn't able to and I'm not able to on the beta firmware (do not install this yet).

For KCPQ atsc 1.0, try 22.2 if 13.1 is giving you reception problems. It is a duplicate 720 broadcast being done on a different physical CH36 broadcasting at higher power (according to rabbit ears). 13.1 is on physical ch22 now.
I'm still getting KCPQ on both RF13 and the lower power translator on RF22, along with the subchannel on RF36 (22.2).

RF31 channels seems to be working today, where I was having issues like everyone else this weekend. Nothing changed on my end (I also have the beta firmware installed)

CBme
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by CBme »

stalecheetos wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:55 pm
CBme wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:32 pm
sullim4 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:23 pm I was really hoping to pull in FOX since we don't get great reception on VHF 13, anyone else seeing this?
Are you currently able to tune CH31: 105, 113 116, 122? Madsushi isn't able to and I'm not able to on the beta firmware (do not install this yet).

For KCPQ atsc 1.0, try 22.2 if 13.1 is giving you reception problems. It is a duplicate 720 broadcast being done on a different physical CH36 broadcasting at higher power (according to rabbit ears). 13.1 is on physical ch22 now.
I'm still getting KCPQ on both RF13 and the lower power translator on RF22, along with the subchannel on RF36 (22.2).

RF31 channels seems to be working today, where I was having issues like everyone else this weekend. Nothing changed on my end (I also have the beta firmware installed)
Huh. Ch31 is working w/o issue now for me too. They weren't this morning so they must have resolved whatever the issue was that happened on Friday.
There is a newer official firmware that got released after the beta: 20210118

larrywhite
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Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:29 pm

Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by larrywhite »

Physical channel 31 seems to be working OK today, all the virtuals are there working fine.
Physical channel 24 seems to be about the same as yesterday but the audio seems to be a little lower to me today.

CBme
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Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:15 pm
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Jan 2021

Post by CBme »

Nounours wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:05 pm Just wanted to share my findings regarding some tests I've done over the weekend with KOMO (104.1) and KIRO (107.1) using the HDHomeRun 4K.

I setup a cheap omnidirectional antenna in my car (still need to figure out a way to securely set it up outside to the rack), and connected the HDHomeRun 4K tuner directly to my laptop. Then my wife and I took a drive around to see if she could actually watch TV on the road.

Long story short, it seems to work rather well, even on the highway at 60mph and I bet getting the antenna up on the roof will likely work even better. I wonder if some day cars and mobile homes might have ATSC3.0-based entertainment built-in for their passengers to enjoy. :)

Anyways, I had an unrelated question for all of you: I'm seeing a discrepancy between 104.1 and 107.1 in terms of signal quality and symbol quality, both on the road and at home. Note that the signal strength and SNR are the same, but KOMO seemed to consistently have a higher signal quality and symbol quality than KIRO. Aren't they broadcasted from the same antenna and frequency?

Thank you in advance.
Nice to see additional validation that the signal is less fragile as promised. I could see it being a nice add-on for a RVs but I really don't see it being an add-in car manufacturers putting anything in. At most, an aftermarket option.
As for 104 & 107, they are both part of Ch24 so they are the same tower and same frequency. No idea why you are seeing something different for them on the device. I checked earlier today and both were acting strange as the signal quality was poor and the lock was dropping but I just checked and they are both back to be solid at 100% for all metrics at my house.

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