Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Help and support for HDHomeRun DVR and HDHomeRun software for Windows 10, Mac, Android, XBox, etc.
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gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:30 pm [...] our app isn't notified of the button press.
I wasn't aware of this and have not gotten a chance to try it but apparently it IS possible to get notified for those buttons but registering with RegisterRawInputDevices()

See

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previo ... v=msdn.10)

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

More info on the topic of getting a remote raw input:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previo ... dfrom=MSDN

nickk
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by nickk »

gab wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:09 pm
nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:30 pm [...] our app isn't notified of the button press.
I wasn't aware of this and have not gotten a chance to try it but apparently it IS possible to get notified for those buttons but registering with RegisterRawInputDevices()
See https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previo ... v=msdn.10)
Good find! Unfortunately it looks like that API is only available to Desktop apps. The HDHomeRun app is a UWP app.

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:21 pm
gab wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:09 pm
nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:30 pm [...] our app isn't notified of the button press.
I wasn't aware of this and have not gotten a chance to try it but apparently it IS possible to get notified for those buttons but registering with RegisterRawInputDevices()
See https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previo ... v=msdn.10)
Good find! Unfortunately it looks like that API is only available to Desktop apps. The HDHomeRun app is a UWP app.
:-(

Well at least now we know that there is no "magic" regarding how WMC gets the info. Maybe we can all lobby MS so they give UWP apps access to that API in the next revision of Windows 10? Who wants to start a petition on Change.org?

In the meantime, could we imagine the possibility of installing a Win32 HDHomeRun companion app on Windows 10 (that you would offer for download directly from your website) that would listen for the raw remote input and pass it to the HDHomeRun UWP app via some form of IPC mechanism?

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

A good way to reach out to Microsoft so that RegisterRawInputDevices() is one day available to UWP apps might be to make a feature proposal for project Reunion?

https://github.com/microsoft/ProjectReunion

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

nickk wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:21 pm Good find! Unfortunately it looks like that API is only available to Desktop apps. The HDHomeRun app is a UWP app.
Looking at this further, it seems that getting access to the RegisterRawInputDevices() API is probably something that can be done by adding a Desktop Extension within your app package and having it pass the info to your UWP app.

See great tutorial at
https://stefanwick.com/2018/04/06/uwp-w ... on-part-1/
https://stefanwick.com/2018/04/06/uwp-w ... on-part-2/
https://stefanwick.com/2018/04/16/uwp-w ... on-part-3/
https://stefanwick.com/2018/04/29/uwp-w ... on-part-4/

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

Hi nicck

So, is there hope to get the keyboard shortcuts proposed by kyl146 at viewtopic.php?p=366584#p366584 implemented by Christmas?

And do you think that SD could investigate packaging a Desktop extension with your app that would handle the "raw" inputs from MCE remotes on Windows 10?

Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving!

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

After realizing that keyboard support is pretty much non-existant in the current HDHR app in the first place, I would like to suggest adding a few entries to kyl416's list:

original list:
Green Button = Windows logo + Alt + Enter [return to "Starting Page" defined in Settings]
Info/Details = Ctrl + D [info on current channel]
Live TV = Ctrl + T [Live]
Recorded TV = Ctrl + O [Recorded]
Guide = Ctrl + G [Discover in the context of HDHR app]
DVD Menu = Ctrl + Shift + M [ I suppose this could be used to jump to My Tasks]
My TV = Ctrl + Shift + T [unused]
My Videos = Ctrl + E [unused]
My Music = Ctrl + M [unused]
My Pictures = Ctrl + I [unused]
DVD Audio/SAP = Ctrl + Shift + A [SAP]
Subtitles/CC = Ctrl + U [CC] [note: Ctrl + Shift +C is listed on some unofficial docs as being CC while Ctrl + U is subtitles, so maybe implement both]
Zoom/Aspect Ratio = Ctrl + Shift + Z [Zoom]

suggested additions:
Go back to the previous screen or backspace a single character in Search = BACKSPACE [currently BACKSPACE implements only backspace a single character in Search, while going back to the previous screen requires pressing ESCAPE, so same issue as with the Back command on the remote, this needs to be made contextual]
Move up one channel = EQUALS (=) or CTRL+EQUALS or PLUS (+ on the numerical keypad) [should also consider PAGE UP]
Move down one channel = HYPHEN (-) or CTRL+HYPHEN or MINUS (- on the numerical keypad) [should also consider PAGE DOWN]
Record = CTRL+R
Pause = CTRL+P [also resumes depending on state]
Play = CTRL+SHIFT+P
Stop = CTRL+SHIFT+S
Replay = CTRL+B [the 10 sec rewind although in WMC it is allegedly only 7 secs]
Skip = CTRL+F [the 30 sec fast-forward]
Rewind = CTRL+SHIFT+B [same as Replay to support fake MCE remotes that might send that until proper rewind is implemented in HDHR]
Fast Forward = CTRL+SHIFT+F [same as Skip to support fake MCE remotes that might send that until proper fast-forward is implemented in HDHR]
Mute = F8
Volume Down = F9
Volume Up = F10

Fo reference:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previo ... v=msdn.10)

nickk
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by nickk »

gab wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:17 pm Looking at this further, it seems that getting access to the RegisterRawInputDevices() API is probably something that can be done by adding a Desktop Extension within your app package and having it pass the info to your UWP app.
Running a Desktop Extension requires the runFullTrust permission. Apps requiring this permission are blocked from the Microsoft store unless Microsoft agree to allow your app an an exception to the rule.

Nick

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

nickk wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:57 pm
gab wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:17 pm Looking at this further, it seems that getting access to the RegisterRawInputDevices() API is probably something that can be done by adding a Desktop Extension within your app package and having it pass the info to your UWP app.
Running a Desktop Extension requires the runFullTrust permission. Apps requiring this permission are blocked from the Microsoft store unless Microsoft agree to allow your app an an exception to the rule.

Nick
OK, so what is the problem? There is a process in place to request approval. What make you think that your request would be denied? Being able to access remote control input seems a legitimate reason to ask for this permission, isn't it?

"There are two ways to get the approval: requesting approval in advance and providing info on the Submission options page.
1.Requesting approval in advance: Visit the Windows Developer support page, click'contact us',select 'Dashboard issue' as support topic and 'App submission' as issue type, and Subcategory Other.Then describe how you are using the capability and why it is necessary for your product. If you do not provide all the information necessary, your request will be denied. You may also be asked to provide more information.
2.Providing info on the Submission options page: Fill the info in the restricted capabilities(Dashboard/your app /Submission/ submission options/restricted capabilities), as the following picture show [...]"

https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forum ... dows-store

I suggest that you try requesting approval in advance. Like that you won't risk wasting time implementing the feature to end up seeing your app submission blocked.


You can also take on Stephan Wick's offer to help with the approval process. It is not obvious from his blog but according to his LinkedIn profile he has been working at Microsoft for over twenty years so he should know people.

"Once you have submitted your info a Microsoft engineer will contact you and work with you through the onboarding process for your app. Once that is done you will be able to submit your app and any future updates just like for any other Windows Store application. We are working on making this initial onboarding process smoother and I appreciate your feedback. If you see any hiccups or delays going through the process please don’t hesitate to contact me and I will do my best to get you unblocked."

https://stefanwick.com/tag/fulltrustprocesslauncher/


I don't understand your reluctance to move forward addressing the shortcoming of the HDHR app in the areas of keyboard and remote-control support. Adding keyboard shortcuts should be trivial work, and will make people like Garryr and me happy. RegisterRawInputDevices() is documented, and it is not difficult to find what I assume are working examples if you need further help to understand how it should be called. https://github.com/JREkiwi/sagetv/blob/ ... wInput.cpp is the best example I found so far but there might be others. Then communicating between the Desktop Extension and the HDHR app can be done exactly as Stefan Wicks' tutorial explains. Finally getting runFullTrust permission granted to your app is in my opinion a given. If you cannot get that permission, who can?

I realize that my lifetime financial contribution to your company is probably worth less than two hours of your time but I really would like your app to be successful because my family now fully depends on it. It is my opinion that as of today your app is behind Windows Media Center in any category you could pick (number of platforms supported aside), but I believe that you can improve it drastically by making little changes.

Now I don't have access to your telemetry and maybe your customers are not whom I think they are. My thinking is that all those WMC fans that hack WMC on Windows 10 or have decided to remain on Windows 7 or 8.1 with the help of EPG123 would not continue to do so if you offered a proper WMC replacement, but maybe they are a minority of your customer base. Maybe getting your app to run on all the streaming boxes and smart TVs out there as you appear to prioritize is a sound strategy. Personally, I would prefer if your app was as good as WMC on Windows and Xbox, even if that comes at the expense of other platforms.

Again, I am hoping for a bright future. Don't take this message otherwise. Maybe I have been drinking too much tonight. After all it is Thanksgiving and maybe we should not be on this forum, but COVID-19 has certainly made this year's holiday forgettable.

NedS
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by NedS »

A third party helper app already exists: https://www.howtogeek.com/247332/how-to ... ce-remote/

NedS
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by NedS »

Also, I'm 100% all for using the keybindings mentioned for being able to go directly to various parts of the HDHR app. Using the Kodi keymap is a great idea. Whatever we come up with should, in theory, be cross platform, as an added bonus.

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

NedS wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:36 pm Also, I'm 100% all for using the keybindings mentioned for being able to go directly to various parts of the HDHR app. Using the Kodi keymap is a great idea. Whatever we come up with should, in theory, be cross platform, as an added bonus.
Great. The Kodi keymap is apparently the same as the Windows Media Center keymap so everybody should be happy with that choice.

gab
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by gab »

NedS wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:34 pm A third party helper app already exists: https://www.howtogeek.com/247332/how-to ... ce-remote/
The third-party helper would indeed work, but users would have to download it, and then map the MCE remote buttons to the keybindings. It would be good, much better than the current situation, yet not perfect, because the experience provided by the HDHR app out-of-the-box would still be unchanged. I am looking forward to this as a first step as I don't see why it would take more than a couple of days to implement.

If, once the keybidings are in place, you would add a Desktop Extension that calls RegisterRawInputDevices() inside your app package, then the Desktop Extension could reroute the raw remote inputs to the keybindings of the HDHR UWP app. It would work out of the box. It would be perfect*.

*Of course, the keybindings would have to trigger actions that are properly implemented. That means for example no error message when the system resumes from sleep while in the Live mode, properly switching channels without displaying the mini control bar that hides the channel that the user is switching to, having Clear backspacing in certain contexts, etc

I am looking forward to seeing the HDHR app improving over the next few weeks. That is my Christmas wish. Thank you.

paulsaz
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Re: Having a hard time convincing family (wife) that HDHR DVR can replace WMC

Post by paulsaz »

Ok, I'm going to beat the dead horse. A grid guide is what is keeping me from switching over to the DVR from Silicon Dust. I did just buy a Plex Pass for local OTA TV, just wish they would have DCM channels.

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