Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Want to write your own code to work with a HDHomeRun or work with the HDHomeRun DVR? We are happy to help with concepts, APIs, best practices.
NOYB
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by NOYB »

NedS wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:46 am No offense, but this is like watching someone make the most impassioned plea for racing stripes to be printed on the case.
"No offense" then make an insult to what is important to someone. Offense taken.

signcarver
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by signcarver »

But that is the case as it isn't important to ANYONE but you... why CRIPPLE a device.

The scan on the device itself should not change as it is pretty much auto, no country (this might change a little as they look into certain regional settings when countries use the same virtual channel number in multiple overlapping regions and/or neighboring countries using the same virtual channel numbers)... if it is that important to you, I believe you can control what channels are scanned by customizing libhdhomerun to your liking (though it may not affect the setup program, it should work for whatever development you are intending it for).

NOYB
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by NOYB »

signcarver wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:11 pm But that is the case as it isn't important to ANYONE but you... why CRIPPLE a device.

The scan on the device itself should not change as it is pretty much auto, no country (this might change a little as they look into certain regional settings when countries use the same virtual channel number in multiple overlapping regions and/or neighboring countries using the same virtual channel numbers)... if it is that important to you, I believe you can control what channels are scanned by customizing libhdhomerun to your liking (though it may not affect the setup program, it should work for whatever development you are intending it for).
Are you the official spokesperson for seven billion people?
As I said previously there is no need break/cripple anything.
My device was marketed and sold as a U.S. broadcast TV tuner. Those who are applying it to other things are out of scope. Scanning U.S. broadcast TV spectrum is not breaking or crippling the device. It still does exactly what it was marketed and sold to do.
I would say scanning irrelevant channels is broken. The only channels relevant to what my device was marketed and sold as are 2-36 U.S. (2-51 Canada).

signcarver
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by signcarver »

But those people who need the other channels still exist in the US and (I have had 1000+ such clients). What you are asking serves no purpose other than to cripple the device. The only thing limited to those channels are actual OTA broadcast and even then there may be some remote low power stations that sill need such. You forget that the device can be used in a closed loop and because SD's software relies on the scan, with no way to add otherwise, it MUST pick up those channels with the scan when they are present.

nickk
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by nickk »

When used in the US it still makes sense to at least scan 2-51 as the customer may be near the CA or MX boarder and get CA or MX channels.

The HDHomeRun currently scans the traditional 2-65 range which is an extra 14 channels. This adds 7s to the scan of a DUO and 3.5s to the scan of a QUATRO (when no channel energy is detected).

Nick

NOYB
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by NOYB »

nickk wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:59 pm When used in the US it still makes sense to at least scan 2-51 as the customer may be near the CA or MX boarder and get CA or MX channels.
Canada coordinated repack of stations near the boarder (within 130km if I recall) with the U.S. I don't see any that qualify for this assertion. Do you know of any?

I have looked through list of Mexico stations as well and don't see any that qualify for this assertion. Didn't see any that were above 36. Do you know of any?
nickk wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:59 pm The HDHomeRun currently scans the traditional 2-65 range which is an extra 14 channels. This adds 7s to the scan of a DUO and 3.5s to the scan of a QUATRO (when no channel energy is detected).
No, no, no.
The HDHomeRun currently scans channels 2-69. And the the portion of 37 to 69 is currently about 1/3 of the total scan time. We live and use these devices in the real world. Not in your lab where those signals don't exist. Was/Is it SD's intention that we use these tuners in a lab rather than the real world where RF energy does exist in this part of the spectrum that us unused by U.S. broadcast TV, Mexico broadcast TV, and Canada broadcast DTV in near proximity to the U.S. boarder.

EDIT: Oh, I forget to also ask. How do you figure that 37 to 69 is only an extra 14 channels? I come up with 33 extra channels. Nearly double what it needs to be.

I don't appreciate half baked assertions like this. As well as the earlier implying that because an apartment complex is using ch. 60 that they can't accomplish the same thing with one of the 2-36 channels. These kinds of assertions come across as disingenuous.

I do appreciate your willingness to discuss this subject.
Last edited by NOYB on Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

NOYB
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by NOYB »

signcarver wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:25 pm But those people who need the other channels still exist in the US and (I have had 1000+ such clients). What you are asking serves no purpose other than to cripple the device. The only thing limited to those channels are actual OTA broadcast and even then there may be some remote low power stations that sill need such. You forget that the device can be used in a closed loop and because SD's software relies on the scan, with no way to add otherwise, it MUST pick up those channels with the scan when they are present.
Like I have said multiple times now. There is no need to break or cripple the device. It's software we are talking about here.
It can allow people to use it that way with ch. 37-69 if they want. Very few probably actually need to. And those probably should be using commercial grade equipment that is actually designed, marketed, and sold for their purpose. Not consumer grade equipment that is designed, marketed and sold for broadcast TV tuner.

The FCC should have a record of those "remote low power stations". Can you cite one?

nickk
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by nickk »

I checked our channel-guide server...
In the last 30 days CONNECT model ATSC HDHomeRun units have accumulatively seen 192,310 sub-channels in the 38-51 channel range.
In the last 30 days CONNECT model ATSC HDHomeRun units have accumulatively seen 84 sub-channels in the 52-69 range.

Even seeing channels from Korea and Belize.
ATSC model HDHomeRun units are not location/country aware. ATSC model HDHomeRun units scan for ATSC signals on frequencies used with ATSC anywhere in the world.

The channels seen in the 52-69 range are likely from closed systems such as private cable networks. I am seeing similar counts on channel 37 which can only be used on private cable networks.

A correction to my previous post - I was thinking of the old hdhomerun_config scan which checks channel power. The built-in HDHomeRun scan does not skip channels based on channel power. I double-checked the code - it will stay on the channel for 1.0 to 1.5 seconds depending on the model. All tuners are used so divide this time by the number of tuners to get the average time it takes to skip a no-lock channel. The new HDHR5-4K will stay on the channel a bit longer as it needs to check for both ATSC 1.0 and ATSC 3.0 signals.

We will not be removing channels 38-51 from the channel scan.
There is a case to be made for removing channels 52-69 but this needs to be considered carefully as removing these channels will negatively affect some customers.

Nick - CTO, Silicondust USA Inc.

NOYB
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by NOYB »

nickk wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:16 pm ATSC model HDHomeRun units are not location/country aware. ATSC model HDHomeRun units scan for ATSC signals on frequencies used with ATSC anywhere in the world.
What then is the point of having a country location configuration selector? My device was marketed and sold as a U.S. broadcast TV tuner and has it's location set as U.S. Not Korea, Belize or any other country.

Fine let it scan when location is set for those, and other, countries. But that doesn't necessitate scanning channels that don't and won't exist in a particular country. The U.S. for instance. Mexico too. And soon to be Canada. (North America)
nickk wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:16 pm I checked our channel-guide server...
In the last 30 days CONNECT model ATSC HDHomeRun units have accumulatively seen 192,310 sub-channels in the 38-51 channel range.
In the last 30 days CONNECT model ATSC HDHomeRun units have accumulatively seen 84 sub-channels in the 52-69 range.

Even seeing channels from Korea and Belize.

The channels seen in the 52-69 range are likely from closed systems such as private cable networks. I am seeing similar counts on channel 37 which can only be used on private cable networks.
Those sub-channel counts are meaningless without knowing where the unit is located and whether or not they are actually broadcast TV. Only those located in the U.S. are relevant to this discussion.
nickk wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:16 pm A correction to my previous post - I was thinking of the old hdhomerun_config scan which checks channel power. The built-in HDHomeRun scan does not skip channels based on channel power. I double-checked the code - it will stay on the channel for 1.0 to 1.5 seconds depending on the model. All tuners are used so divide this time by the number of tuners to get the average time it takes to skip a no-lock channel. The new HDHR5-4K will stay on the channel a bit longer as it needs to check for both ATSC 1.0 and ATSC 3.0 signals.
Model: HDHR4-2US
Firmware: 20200907
Device ID: 1040dddd
Location: United States
Tuner: 0 us-bcast

C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config.exe 1040dddd scan /tuner0


Summary:
52-69 (18 channels) 28 seconds (19.4%) - Reallocated (DTV conversion 6/12/2009)
37-51 (15 channels) 13 seconds ( 9.0%) - Mobile Carriers (Repack 7/3/2020)
2-36 (35 channels) 103 seconds (71.5%) - official U.S. broadcast TV* ** (found 50 programs)
total (68 channels) 144 seconds

* And Canada DTV in near proximity to U.S. boarder.
** Mexico too according to station list online.

UHF ch. 52 through 69 for U.S. broadcast TV was decommissioned more than a decade ago. It's time to move on. We moved on from decommissioning 70-84 in 1983. We can surely move on from here too.
UHF ch. 37 through 51 for U.S. broadcast TV though recently decommissioned there is no need for them. That a very few people may be using for out of scope purposes does not mean they are need. Most of those could accomplish the same thing within the 2-36 channels.

As the channel 37 to 51 spectrum becomes filled with RF signals it too will take a more significant amount of time to scan. Like the channels 52-69. So far in this discussion no solid good reason for continuing this has been presented.


Scan Results:
28 seconds
Reallocated (DTV conversion 6/12/2009) (18):
SCANNING: 803000000 (us-bcast:69) LOCK: none (ss=28 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 797000000 (us-bcast:68) LOCK: none (ss=29 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 791000000 (us-bcast:67) LOCK: none (ss=34 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 785000000 (us-bcast:66) LOCK: none (ss=31 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 779000000 (us-bcast:65) LOCK: none (ss=29 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 773000000 (us-bcast:64) LOCK: none (ss=46 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 767000000 (us-bcast:63) LOCK: none (ss=67 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 761000000 (us-bcast:62) LOCK: none (ss=80 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 755000000 (us-bcast:61) LOCK: none (ss=99 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 749000000 (us-bcast:60) LOCK: none (ss=90 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 743000000 (us-bcast:59) LOCK: none (ss=70 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 737000000 (us-bcast:58) LOCK: none (ss=76 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 731000000 (us-bcast:57) LOCK: none (ss=67 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 725000000 (us-bcast:56) LOCK: none (ss=28 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 719000000 (us-bcast:55) LOCK: none (ss=28 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 713000000 (us-bcast:54) LOCK: none (ss=28 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 707000000 (us-bcast:53) LOCK: none (ss=26 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 701000000 (us-bcast:52) LOCK: none (ss=27 snq=0 seq=0)

13 seconds
Mobile Carriers (Repack 7/3/2020) (14):
SCANNING: 695000000 (us-bcast:51) LOCK: none (ss=27 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 689000000 (us-bcast:50) LOCK: none (ss=23 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 683000000 (us-bcast:49) LOCK: none (ss=27 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 677000000 (us-bcast:48) LOCK: none (ss=27 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 671000000 (us-bcast:47) LOCK: none (ss=26 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 665000000 (us-bcast:46) LOCK: none (ss=31 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 659000000 (us-bcast:45) LOCK: none (ss=29 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 653000000 (us-bcast:44) LOCK: none (ss=27 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 647000000 (us-bcast:43) LOCK: none (ss=29 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 641000000 (us-bcast:42) LOCK: none (ss=30 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 635000000 (us-bcast:41) LOCK: none (ss=100 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 629000000 (us-bcast:40) LOCK: none (ss=75 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 623000000 (us-bcast:39) LOCK: none (ss=32 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 617000000 (us-bcast:38) LOCK: none (ss=29 snq=0 seq=0)

Radio Astronomy (1):
SCANNING: 611000000 (us-bcast:37) LOCK: none (ss=29 snq=0 seq=0)

103 seconds for the official broadcast TV spectrum (ch. 36-2)
TV (UHF) (16):
SCANNING: 605000000 (us-bcast:36) LOCK: none (ss=28 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 599000000 (us-bcast:35) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=43 snq=41 seq=0)
SCANNING: 593000000 (us-bcast:34) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=81 snq=78 seq=100)
TSID: 0x1FED
PROGRAM 3: 47.1 KUNP-LD
PROGRAM 4: 47.2 TBD
PROGRAM 5: 47.3 Charge
SCANNING: 587000000 (us-bcast:33) LOCK: none (ss=100 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 581000000 (us-bcast:32) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=90 seq=100)
TSID: 0x097F
PROGRAM 3: 24.1 TBN HD
PROGRAM 4: 24.2 Hilsong
PROGRAM 5: 24.3 SMILE
PROGRAM 6: 24.4 Enlace
PROGRAM 7: 24.5 POSITIV
SCANNING: 575000000 (us-bcast:31) LOCK: none (ss=44 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 569000000 (us-bcast:30) LOCK: none (ss=100 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 563000000 (us-bcast:29) LOCK: none (ss=46 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 557000000 (us-bcast:28) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=45 snq=42 seq=0)
SCANNING: 551000000 (us-bcast:27) LOCK: none (ss=27 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 545000000 (us-bcast:26) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=68 snq=67 seq=100)
TSID: 0x270F
PROGRAM 1: 26.1 SBN 1
PROGRAM 2: 26.2 Shop LC (no data)
PROGRAM 3: 26.3 ACE TV
PROGRAM 4: 26.4 Heartla
SCANNING: 539000000 (us-bcast:25) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=98 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0977
PROGRAM 3: 6.1 KOIN-HD
PROGRAM 4: 6.2 GetTV
PROGRAM 5: 6.3 Bounce
PROGRAM 6: 32.2 Antenna
PROGRAM 7: 32.3 Courttv
PROGRAM 8: 32.4 TBD
SCANNING: 533000000 (us-bcast:24) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=90 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0975
PROGRAM 3: 2.1 KATU
PROGRAM 4: 2.2 MeTV
PROGRAM 5: 2.3 Comet
PROGRAM 6: 2.4 Stadium
PROGRAM 7: 32.1 KRCW
SCANNING: 527000000 (us-bcast:23) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=87 snq=75 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0979
PROGRAM 3: 8.10 KGW
PROGRAM 4: 8.20 Crime
PROGRAM 5: 8.30 Quest
PROGRAM 6: 49.20 Escape
PROGRAM 7: 49.40 Grit
SCANNING: 521000000 (us-bcast:22) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=65 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0987
PROGRAM 3: 22.1 ION
PROGRAM 4: 22.2 qubo
PROGRAM 5: 22.3 IONPlus
PROGRAM 6: 22.4 Shop
PROGRAM 7: 22.5 QVC
PROGRAM 8: 22.6 HSN
PROGRAM 9: 22.7 TLMD
SCANNING: 515000000 (us-bcast:21) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=74 snq=65 seq=100)

LMR (Land Mobile Radio) (7) (some metro areas):
SCANNING: 509000000 (us-bcast:20) LOCK: none (ss=30 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 503000000 (us-bcast:19) LOCK: none (ss=32 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 497000000 (us-bcast:18) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=48 snq=41 seq=0)
SCANNING: 491000000 (us-bcast:17) LOCK: none (ss=30 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 485000000 (us-bcast:16) LOCK: none (ss=28 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 479000000 (us-bcast:15) LOCK: none (ss=28 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 473000000 (us-bcast:14) LOCK: none (ss=30 snq=0 seq=0)


TV (VHF High) (7):
SCANNING: 213000000 (us-bcast:13) LOCK: none (ss=54 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 207000000 (us-bcast:12) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=76 seq=100)
TSID: 0x097D
PROGRAM 3: 12.1 FOX 12
PROGRAM 4: 12.2 COZI
PROGRAM 5: 12.3 LAFF
PROGRAM 6: 12.4 DABL
PROGRAM 7: 49.1 Fox12+
PROGRAM 8: 49.3 Bounce
SCANNING: 201000000 (us-bcast:11) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=83 snq=42 seq=0)
SCANNING: 195000000 (us-bcast:10) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=98 seq=100)
TSID: 0x097B
PROGRAM 3: 10.1 OPB
PROGRAM 4: 10.2 OPBPlus
PROGRAM 5: 10.3 OPBKids
PROGRAM 6: 10.4 OPB-FM
SCANNING: 189000000 (us-bcast:9) LOCK: none (ss=65 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 183000000 (us-bcast:8) LOCK: 8vsb (ss=100 snq=68 seq=100)
TSID: 0x0979
PROGRAM 3: 8.1 KGW
PROGRAM 4: 8.2 Crime
PROGRAM 5: 8.3 Quest
PROGRAM 6: 49.2 Escape
PROGRAM 7: 49.4 Grit
SCANNING: 177000000 (us-bcast:7) LOCK: none (ss=70 snq=0 seq=0)

TV (VHF Low) (5):
SCANNING: 85000000 (us-bcast:6) LOCK: none (ss=74 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 79000000 (us-bcast:5) LOCK: none (ss=76 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 69000000 (us-bcast:4) LOCK: none (ss=54 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 63000000 (us-bcast:3) LOCK: none (ss=49 snq=0 seq=0)
SCANNING: 57000000 (us-bcast:2) LOCK: none (ss=52 snq=0 seq=0)

signcarver
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by signcarver »

NOYB wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:10 pm Like I have said multiple times now. There is no need to break or cripple the device. It's software we are talking about here.
It can allow people to use it that way with ch. 37-69 if they want. Very few probably actually need to. And those probably should be using commercial grade equipment that is actually designed, marketed, and sold for their purpose. Not consumer grade equipment that is designed, marketed and sold for broadcast TV tuner.
No I can't list one but they always say that when dealing with existing low powered stations... typically the issue doesn't come up until verizon (for the most part) tries to do something new in the remote area which then the fcc sides with the cellphone company forcing the change.

Its not "SOFTWARE" in that sense as the modern device does the scan itself and is (at least currently and most likely always by default) location agnostic. Where there is software control of such, which doesn't affect the device, I believe one can easily modify the software if they really want to save 10-30 seconds out of their life (most likely only needs a line or two in hdhomerun_channels.c changed and perhaps hdhomerun_channelscan.c but I haven't looked at those for quite awhile) but that won't and should not change what the device needs to do to run it's PROPER scan and give the user any channel that they receive. You have spent more time arguing this point than probably the majority of users have ever spent actually running a scan when such change is totally unnecessary as the result would be the same for you without those channels and those with can also get the ones they need and it is the same setup procedure for both without needing any additional support to override such.

As far as commercial equipment, I don't know any person who lives in these apartments could afford to go out and buy commercial equipment... Since they are not allowed to run additional outlets the HDHR often makes sense if they have a laptop, tablet or phone to almost feel normal again by having a "2nd TV" in the household as well as the possibility of having a DVR like they may have had before. The commercial equipment part is what the complex installed to provide the tv signal to it's residents who can't afford to get cable. What the resident uses to view such in their "home" is hardly ever commercial.

nickk
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by nickk »

NOYB wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:40 pm What then is the point of having a country location configuration selector?
1) It is used to set the correct channel map on legacy DVB-T models. All newer models set the channel map automatically as part of the channel detection process.
2) It was necessary when running Vista Media Center to know if you were in Canada vs USA.

Note that HDHomeRun Setup is used to configure Windows BDA apps. Modern HDHomeRun units do the scan themselves in order to support a wide range of platforms.
Fine let it scan when location is set for those, and other, countries. But that doesn't necessitate scanning channels that don't and won't exist in a particular country. The U.S. for instance. Mexico too. And soon to be Canada. (North America). [...] Those sub-channel counts are meaningless without knowing where the unit is located and whether or not they are actually broadcast TV. Only those located in the U.S. are relevant to this discussion.
In the last 30 days CONNECT model ATSC HDHomeRun units have accumulatively seen 183,574 sub-channels in the 38-51 channel range from units located in the USA.
C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config.exe 1040dddd scan /tuner0
That is the legacy scan feature of the command line utilities. This legacy scan approach isn't used for normal operation of your HDHR4-2US.
To run a channel scan on your HDHR4-2US use the device webpage, use HDHomeRun Setup, or use the following command:
C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config.exe 1040dddd set /lineup/scan start
To check the status:
C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config.exe 1040dddd get /lineup/scan

This scan runs much faster and detects more about each sub-channel (including the codecs used, video resolution, etc)

To get the channels detected go to:
http://1040dddd.local/lineup.xml?tuning
or
http://1040dddd.local/lineup.json?tuning

I have filed a note to examine removing channel 37 and channels 52 to 69 from the channel scan.

Nick

NOYB
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by NOYB »

signcarver wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:29 pm No I can't list one but they always say that when dealing with existing low powered stations... typically the issue doesn't come up until verizon (for the most part) tries to do something new in the remote area which then the fcc sides with the cellphone company forcing the change.
That's what I thought. None issue.
signcarver wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:29 pm Its not "SOFTWARE" in that sense as the modern device does the scan itself and is (at least currently and most likely always by default) location agnostic. Where there is software control of such, which doesn't affect the device, I believe one can easily modify the software if they really want to save 10-30 seconds out of their life (most likely only needs a line or two in hdhomerun_channels.c changed and perhaps hdhomerun_channelscan.c but I haven't looked at those for quite awhile) but that won't and should not change what the device needs to do to run it's PROPER scan and give the user any channel that they receive. You have spent more time arguing this point than probably the majority of users have ever spent actually running a scan when such change is totally unnecessary as the result would be the same for you without those channels and those with can also get the ones they need and it is the same setup procedure for both without needing any additional support to override such.
Obviously the device does the signal scan. Software is what controls the device. Software is what would be changed.
signcarver wrote: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:29 pm As far as commercial equipment, I don't know any person who lives in these apartments could afford to go out and buy commercial equipment... Since they are not allowed to run additional outlets the HDHR often makes sense if they have a laptop, tablet or phone to almost feel normal again by having a "2nd TV" in the household as well as the possibility of having a DVR like they may have had before. The commercial equipment part is what the complex installed to provide the tv signal to it's residents who can't afford to get cable. What the resident uses to view such in their "home" is hardly ever commercial.
It still wouldn't be commercial equipment. Tenants would still use their consumer HDHomerun if that is what they have. The apartment building would just move any 37 to 69 channels they provide to the 2-36 range. Virtual channels could remain the same. Tenant just does a rescan. Just a repack of the apartment building's channels.
Last edited by NOYB on Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

NOYB
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by NOYB »

nickk wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:07 am In the last 30 days CONNECT model ATSC HDHomeRun units have accumulatively seen 183,574 sub-channels in the 38-51 channel range from units located in the USA.
What do you suppose those 183,574 sub-channels in the 38-51 channel range are? They certainly better not be broadcast TV. Just because they are being used doesn't mean they are needed. Whatever they are doing they can probably accomplish the same thing in the 2-36 channel range. Besides, think I've been clear that even just an option for those who don't what to scan them would be accecptable. Wouldn't even need to be a GUI config. Just hdhomerun_config command line and lineup.json query string parameter.

nickk wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:07 am That is the legacy scan feature of the command line utilities. This legacy scan approach isn't used for normal operation of your HDHR4-2US.
To run a channel scan on your HDHR4-2US use the device webpage, use HDHomeRun Setup, or use the following command:
C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config.exe 1040dddd set /lineup/scan start
To check the status:
C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config.exe 1040dddd get /lineup/scan

This scan runs much faster and detects more about each sub-channel (including the codecs used, video resolution, etc)

To get the channels detected go to:
http://1040dddd.local/lineup.xml?tuning
or
http://1040dddd.local/lineup.json?tuning
I know its the legacy command. It's the command that suits some of my use. I don't always want to set/change the device channel line up. I don't always want the device interrupting viewing and recording due to it not knowing any better than taking over both tuners to run a scan even though already in use. And sometimes I want that output.

Think I mentioned to you in another thread that it would be nice to have lineup.json option to not take over in use tuners. And/or possibly to also restrict the scan to using only one tuner.
nickk wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 9:07 am I have filed a note to examine removing channel 37 and channels 52 to 69 from the channel scan.
Thanks. It's a start and better than nothing I suppose. But I won't be holding my breath. It seems you are basically opposed, so I'm not optimistic that it will be pursued with much effort to make it reality. Who knows maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

I foresee the 37 to 51 range taking up about 30 or more seconds as it becomes populated with mobile carrier signals too.

jasondeanny
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by jasondeanny »

Instead of fighting for shaving some time off the scan process, how about the ability to use one tuner while the other(s) scan for channels. At least you can still watch something while the scan continues.

If it's a 4 tuner device, use three for the scan and one for viewing.

ebo
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Re: Channel Detection Scan (channels 2-6)

Post by ebo »

The answer that should satisfy everyone is to make the scanning range a user option. 2-51 or even 2-69 could be the default but let the users who are annoyed by the time it takes change the range to 2-36 or 8-23 or whatever is best for them.

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