Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

A place for people to discuss future hardware and software product news
Post Reply
jmcguire525
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 2:29 pm

Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by jmcguire525 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:28 am

NedS wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:02 pm
We have explained before that DRM recording support is not tied (not in the way you seem to be implying) with the PRIME 6. As a matter of managing our resources and being able to fund development and continued support, it made sense to have DRM ready in time for the PRIME 6, when we thought we would meet the 2018 PRIME 6 ETA. Not only for the PRIME 6, of course, as we still have an obligation to develop the feature.

We wouldn't stop working on the PRIME 6 just because of a software issue with the DVR-DRM stuff.
jasonl wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:11 pm
The release of PRIME 6 is dependent on DRM recording support being available, because it would be kind of pointless to release it otherwise when half the country is stuck with a DRM-happy cable provider and wouldn't have a recording option without it. This is a one-way dependency.
Please answer this one simple question...
Is the production of the Prime 6 dependent on having a DRM solution finalized?

It sure sounds like that is the case, and from a business perspective it makes sense. It also abandons all customers like myself that are lucky enough not to have any channels with DRM.

jasonl
Silicondust
Posts: 14734
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:23 pm

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by jasonl » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 pm

These statements are not conflicting. Development is different from release. We are continuing to work on DRM support just as we are continuing to work on PRIME 6.

jmcguire525
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by jmcguire525 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:59 pm

jasonl wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 pm
These statements are not conflicting. Development is different from release. We are continuing to work on DRM support just as we are continuing to work on PRIME 6.
I specifically asked about production, and the question still hasn't been clearly answered.

I don't understand the point in making vague statements rather than just coming out with a concrete answer, it is frustrating for customers who have waited a long time for a Prime 3 replacement.

My guess is as follows, and you can correct me if I am wrong...

- DRM is still in development hell, internally you are probably optimistic and believe it will be done soon but there are no guarantees that it will pass CableLabs certification or how long that will take.
- The Prime 6 development is mostly finalized, you could probably even begin mass production by the end of the year (assuming the chipsets are available), but without DRM it is not worth the financial risk of entering production. Until the DRM method is certified the Prime 6 is effectively dead.

NedS
Silicondust
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by NedS » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:40 pm

jmcguire525 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:59 pm
My guess is as follows, and you can correct me if I am wrong...
You are incorrect.

jmcguire525
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by jmcguire525 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:41 pm

NedS wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:40 pm
jmcguire525 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:59 pm
My guess is as follows, and you can correct me if I am wrong...
You are incorrect.
Instead of locking threads and deleting post, why not be more transparent? I'm not saying you should lay out the internal road map or planned release dates, but these blanket statements are obviously frustrating to long time customers. You claim I'm spreading FUD in another thread and still haven't answered the one question I have asked here. I'll just lay out some of the facts, no more speculation, but if you think other members aren't already making similar assumptions that is naive.

- On May 13, 2016: it was announced that protected content recording would be coming the following month. Here is the direct quote from the Kickstarter page...
Protected channel support on Android is nearing release. We will be releasing live TV support first, with recording support to follow next month.
- CES 2018: Prime 6 prototype is shown off with the CEO saying "We're launching this mid year". (An internal goal is to have protected content recording ready by launch)
- CES 2019: Prime 6 is shown again. CEO claims the Prime 6 "is the focus" and "it is coming this year".
- Mid 2019: Prime 6 advertisement on the website shows "coming in 2019"
- Last Week: "coming in 2019" is removed from the website with a note from the CEO vaguely explaining chipset issues and making it clear there will be no further announcements until it is in production
- Yesterday: Jason states "The release of PRIME 6 is dependent on DRM recording support being available".

So here we are today, over 3 years past the announced released date of Protected DRM Recordings, 18 months past the announced release of the Prime 6... If you make assumptions then it is labeled as FUD, if you ask what the heck has been going on internally you only get pieces of the picture.

NedS
Silicondust
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by NedS » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:03 pm

jmcguire525 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:41 pm
Instead of locking threads and deleting post, why not be more transparent?
Because even the things I thought were safe to say are being twisted and distorted by some people who want to assume the worst. Product delays (and not recouping the R&D that goes into that product) are a huge burden for a company, and it makes no sense that we would sit on anything, be it working hardware or working software, and not release it as soon as it was ready. Unless we're talking just a matter of a week or two for a nice dual release announcement (an example assuming if this would be done at all, I don't know because I don't work in marketing), each product will go out as soon as possible.

We are not delaying production of the PRIME 6 to wait for DVR-DRM support. That is the answer to your question. I'm sorry I can't be more transparent, but thems the breaks. We're not talking about this anymore util there is something new to talk about.

rrussis82
Posts: 487
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:46 pm
Location: Western MA

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by rrussis82 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:48 pm

THIS is exactly why SD keeps their mouth shut! so the more you complain and cry about things when they do share information the more likely they wont ever tell you anything until the day it is released.

comet48
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:09 pm

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by comet48 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:25 pm

One has to question whether these products are even in development. It's easy and cheap to overhang the market by announcing products you have no intention of of developing. I have two Prime, a Quad and a Duel. They work well with Plex. But not being able to give the truthful status on products announced/promised two and three years ago is inexcusable.

NedS
Silicondust
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by NedS » Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:50 pm

comet48 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:25 pm
One has to question whether these products are even in development. It's easy and cheap to overhang the market by announcing products you have no intention of of developing. I have two Prime, a Quad and a Duel. They work well with Plex. But not being able to give the truthful status on products announced/promised two and three years ago is inexcusable.

Fair warning, your post is border line on breaking our no-FUD rule (fear, uncertainty and doubt).

I've literally held prototypes of the PRIME 6 in my hand. A never-released PRIME 4 was in-development and had to be scrapped (due to a part supplier merging or something like that) in that 2/3 year time frame as well. In other words, not only is it in development, but we've done that development twice already. We've been truthful whenever we've spoken about the PRIME 6 and its current status.

It's entirely fair to be disappointed in us, or to not trust our ETAs, and we don't expect anyone to hold their breath for us, but please stop acting like we tried to manipulate anyone or misrepresent the situation. Things happen, situations change, problems get discovered, unrelated issues sometimes require our attention and push things back, and deadlines change. Life is complicated. We failed to meet our internal deadline, yes, but that does not mean it was a lie at the time we said a given ETA. What would we have to gain from such a lie other than ticking off customers and getting even less sales, as well as a bad reputation?

Bobstr
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:07 pm
Device ID: 131CCFEA, 1314A87C
Location: Seattle area

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by Bobstr » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:19 am

NedS wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:50 pm
comet48 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:25 pm
One has to question whether these products are even in development. It's easy and cheap to overhang the market by announcing products you have no intention of of developing. I have two Prime, a Quad and a Duel. They work well with Plex. But not being able to give the truthful status on products announced/promised two and three years ago is inexcusable.

Fair warning, your post is border line on breaking our no-FUD rule (fear, uncertainty and doubt).

I've literally held prototypes of the PRIME 6 in my hand. A never-released PRIME 4 was in-development and had to be scrapped (due to a part supplier merging or something like that) in that 2/3 year time frame as well. In other words, not only is it in development, but we've done that development twice already. We've been truthful whenever we've spoken about the PRIME 6 and its current status.

It's entirely fair to be disappointed in us, or to not trust our ETAs, and we don't expect anyone to hold their breath for us, but please stop acting like we tried to manipulate anyone or misrepresent the situation. Things happen, situations change, problems get discovered, unrelated issues sometimes require our attention and push things back, and deadlines change. Life is complicated. We failed to meet our internal deadline, yes, but that does not mean it was a lie at the time we said a given ETA. What would we have to gain from such a lie other than ticking off customers and getting even less sales, as well as a bad reputation?
It appears that some people just want to spew their unhappiness in ways that are more extreme than others.. Even in ways that some others would deem as unacceptable (or at least in ways they wouldn't accept if that spewage was aimed at them instead of at SD).

Hang in there. I'm sure you're just as unhappy with the delays in taking this to production as the rest of us are, so no hard feelings from me or most of us. There are times when it's prudent for a company to not provide details on future products, and there are times when it's prudent to tell part or all. It is what it is.

rmalbers
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:43 am

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by rmalbers » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:02 pm

I just wish at this point amazon would buy SD, put the cable card tuner out and white list it for "Live TV" so the live guide would work.

NedS
Silicondust
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by NedS » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:18 pm

rmalbers wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:02 pm
I just wish at this point amazon would buy SD, put the cable card tuner out and white list it for "Live TV" so the live guide would work.
To be bought out by Amazon would be a fate worse than death, for both company and consumer.

scyto
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 2:42 pm
Location: Seattle Area

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by scyto » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:11 pm

comet48 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:25 pm
One has to question whether these products are even in development. It's easy and cheap to overhang the market by announcing products you have no intention of of developing. I have two Prime, a Quad and a Duel. They work well with Plex. But not being able to give the truthful status on products announced/promised two and three years ago is inexcusable.
Of course they are working on them and no reasonable person would ask that question.
They have been truthful. It’s morons who mis interpret the vagaries of development processes that are the issue.
Heck I do just software and there have been features where we genuinely thought we would have it out in next couple of months and it took 3 years.
They have basically had one chipset EOL, another be pulled, that is like starting again.

Development is hard.

scyto
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 2:42 pm
Location: Seattle Area

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by scyto » Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:12 pm

NedS wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:18 pm
rmalbers wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:02 pm
I just wish at this point amazon would buy SD, put the cable card tuner out and white list it for "Live TV" so the live guide would work.
To be bought out by Amazon would be a fate worse than death, for both company and consumer.
Yes.

It would like google/nest buying revolv ... (never heard of revolv, exactly).
Not to mention poor Ceton who got screwed over aligning themselves so closely with one of the big guys.

rmalbers
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:43 am

Re: Conflicting Statements... Which is it?

Post by rmalbers » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:12 am

That looks like that was some smart home hub, gee, I'm not sure where I can buy one of those, LOL (and they bought them back)! It seems like SD problem is resources, if it's as hard to develop a cable card tuner as SD says, and I do believe it's no picnic, they need a few more programmers, guess who has a few more programmers. I don't use any of the nest products so I really don't know for sure but it seems like google has been introducing some ok nest stuff. At this point I hope SD has enough money in the bank to get a cable card turner done, or if they don't that someone with the resources buys them.

Post Reply