6 tuner prime soon !!!

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shspvr
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by shspvr » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:51 pm

StraightThruTheHeart wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:30 pm
You're confused.
:shock: your the one don't get why it's necessary to tie recording protected content to the Prime 6 as is not up to Silicon Dust they only follow the rule set by law just like with HDMI and HDCP carp so you need to lean to deal with it or fine work around and if you can't well sorry your just SOL in tell the rule changes unlike in Europe for now and other 3rd world country and even some are all ready have to deal with Brein, ACE & MPA and many other doing everything in there power to lockdown all media recording.

NedS
Silicondust
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by NedS » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:02 pm

StraightThruTheHeart wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:41 am
jmcguire525 wrote:
Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:43 pm
You want a company that is notorious for missing launch dates to do another kickstarter? Please tell me you are new here.
It's going on 5 years. It's more than "missing launch dates", it's failing to deliver. When you take people's money ahead of time, you have added responsibility.

And they refuse to explain why it's necessary to tie recording protected content to the Prime 6. There's no reason to do that. It's simply a delay tactic. If I'm wrong, explain it.

It seems unethical to hold back the key feature you took people's money for, without explanation.

If recording protected content is doable, then RELEASE IT.
It's been four years from the start of the Kickstarter itself, with no ETA on a final product (only an ETA on when early access would start), and a warning about DRM support being hard, and there might be limited support for some platforms. If one assumed that development would take a year for all features (which is very optimistic for CableCARD DRM support), that's a three year wait for DRM-protected content, which is still unacceptable and something we still endeavor to correct.

We have explained before that DRM recording support is not tied (not in the way you seem to be implying) with the PRIME 6. As a matter of managing our resources and being able to fund development and continued support, it made sense to have DRM ready in time for the PRIME 6, when we thought we would meet the 2018 PRIME 6 ETA. Not only for the PRIME 6, of course, as we still have an obligation to develop the feature.

The only way to make that development viable (Kickstarter is only just that, a kick start) is if we have a CableCARD tuner to sell, and such a tuner won't be as viable without DRM support in the DVR software. Between now and the Kickstarter we were dealt a blow when key components for the original PRIME dried up and were no longer being manufactured. A PRIME 4 was in development to fix that, and the same thing happened again. The PRIME 6 was yet another redesign.

To compensate for the delay, all KS backers and early-access customers have been getting free service all of this time. If everyone has been taking advantage of that, then the amount of lost income from renewals is larger than what we took in from Kickstarter (just from some simple math based on the publicly available Kickstarter data). It would actually be cheaper at this point had we refunded everyone, but we are still dedicated to delivering on our promises, no matter the setbacks we have faced.

Adding DRM-recording support and complying with all the laws and regulations that come with that is a massive undertaking. That "T" company might be the only ones that still do it, now that WMC is going off into the sunset, and they're a big company with a lot more resources. My point being, please don't underestimate this endeavor. It's not easy, but we will get it done.

rpcameron
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by rpcameron » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:21 pm

NedS wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:02 pm
We have explained before that DRM recording support is not tied (not in the way you seem to be implying) with the PRIME 6. As a matter of managing our resources and being able to fund development and continued support, it made sense to have DRM ready in time for the PRIME 6, when we thought we would meet the 2018 PRIME 6 ETA. Not only for the PRIME 6, of course, as we still have an obligation to develop the feature.

The only way to make that development viable (Kickstarter is only just that, a kick start) is if we have a CableCARD tuner to sell, and such a tuner won't be as viable without DRM support in the DVR software. Between now and the Kickstarter we were dealt a blow when key components for the original PRIME dried up and were no longer being manufactured. A PRIME 4 was in development to fix that, and the same thing happened again. The PRIME 6 was yet another redesign.
Reading between the lines: Since the Prime 3 is EOL, and SD essentially has no CableCARD product to make further developing DRM support for their DVR financially viable ("Why develop software for hardware they do not sell," to paraphrase Ned's post), don't expect DRM recording any time soon.

If the Prime 6 is ever released, then development will begin again on DRM recording. In the interim, you're SOL.

EddieP
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by EddieP » Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:41 pm

rpcameron wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:21 pm
NedS wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:02 pm
We have explained before that DRM recording support is not tied (not in the way you seem to be implying) with the PRIME 6. As a matter of managing our resources and being able to fund development and continued support, it made sense to have DRM ready in time for the PRIME 6, when we thought we would meet the 2018 PRIME 6 ETA. Not only for the PRIME 6, of course, as we still have an obligation to develop the feature.

The only way to make that development viable (Kickstarter is only just that, a kick start) is if we have a CableCARD tuner to sell, and such a tuner won't be as viable without DRM support in the DVR software. Between now and the Kickstarter we were dealt a blow when key components for the original PRIME dried up and were no longer being manufactured. A PRIME 4 was in development to fix that, and the same thing happened again. The PRIME 6 was yet another redesign.
Reading between the lines: Since the Prime 3 is EOL, and SD essentially has no CableCARD product to make further developing DRM support for their DVR financially viable ("Why develop software for hardware they do not sell," to paraphrase Ned's post), don't expect DRM recording any time soon.

If the Prime 6 is ever released, then development will begin again on DRM recording. In the interim, you're SOL.
But without DRM recording there are better DVR products out there that do not do DRM. I guess they should continue on their outstanding OTA tuners for cord cutters. I know personally the only reason why I have a running instance of the DVR was the anticipation of DRM recording.

shspvr
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by shspvr » Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:09 pm

rpcameron wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:21 pm
Reading between the lines: Since the Prime 3 is EOL, and SD essentially has no CableCARD product to make further developing DRM support for their DVR financially viable ("Why develop software for hardware they do not sell," to paraphrase Ned's post), don't expect DRM recording any time soon.

If the Prime 6 is ever released, then development will begin again on DRM recording. In the interim, you're SOL.
What wrong with OTA Line up

rpcameron
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by rpcameron » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:09 pm

shspvr wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:09 pm
rpcameron wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:21 pm
Reading between the lines: Since the Prime 3 is EOL, and SD essentially has no CableCARD product to make further developing DRM support for their DVR financially viable ("Why develop software for hardware they do not sell," to paraphrase Ned's post), don't expect DRM recording any time soon.

If the Prime 6 is ever released, then development will begin again on DRM recording. In the interim, you're SOL.
What wrong with OTA Line up
Nothing, except there is no need for DRM recording when using OTA tuners. And since SD has stopped manufacturing of the Prime 3, and the Prime 6 is shelved for now, SD does not presently sell any device that needs DRM recording. Since the previous comment from Ned seems to imply that SD won't expend resources on software that won't drive hardware sales, the implication is that further development on DRM recording has been shelved.

speedingcheetah
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by speedingcheetah » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:37 pm

There are not any "Protected" channels that I care about or subscribe to from Xfinity.
My current Prime gets all the channels my cable box does, expect for the VOD...which I never use...to slow and clunky and limited.

shspvr
Posts: 57
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by shspvr » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:32 pm

rpcameron wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:09 pm
Nothing, except there is no need for DRM recording when using OTA tuners. And since SD has stopped manufacturing of the Prime 3, and the Prime 6 is shelved for now, SD does not presently sell any device that needs DRM recording. Since the previous comment from Ned seems to imply that SD won't expend resources on software that won't drive hardware sales, the implication is that further development on DRM recording has been shelved.
For now that the case there not much they can do if can't get the necessary component or fining another suited alterative which going take time many resources ever time they have start over rebuilding the motherboard and restart whole recertification process all over with diff component.
We can forget about any kind software solution as a replace to cable card which dose all channel decryption and copy control information from incoming stream.
Last edited by shspvr on Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

NedS
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by NedS » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:34 pm

rpcameron wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:21 pm
Reading between the lines: Since the Prime 3 is EOL, and SD essentially has no CableCARD product to make further developing DRM support for their DVR financially viable ("Why develop software for hardware they do not sell," to paraphrase Ned's post), don't expect DRM recording any time soon.

If the Prime 6 is ever released, then development will begin again on DRM recording. In the interim, you're SOL.
This is 100% wrong.

Having a CableCARD product for sale is the same as currently developing a CableCARD product, as far as working on DVR-DRM goes. I don't believe things would drastically change for DRM support, had the original PRIME continued to be manufactured (as in, we might still be waiting for it, but I certainly can't say for sure what would or would not happen in an alternative time line). That's not what I mean when I say that they need each other. We think far more long term than that.

Once again, DVR-DRM needs a CC-product, and the CC-product needs DVR-DRM (to be a smart business investment, that is). We wouldn't stop working on the PRIME 6 just because of a software issue with the DVR-DRM stuff, and we won't stop working on the DVR-DRM stuff due to a production delay with the PRIME 6. They're "related", but not strictly linked. That is my point. There is no reading between the lines here, I am flat telling you that people are working their butt off to get both done.

NedS
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by NedS » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:37 pm

rpcameron wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:09 pm
shspvr wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:09 pm
rpcameron wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:21 pm
Reading between the lines: Since the Prime 3 is EOL, and SD essentially has no CableCARD product to make further developing DRM support for their DVR financially viable ("Why develop software for hardware they do not sell," to paraphrase Ned's post), don't expect DRM recording any time soon.

If the Prime 6 is ever released, then development will begin again on DRM recording. In the interim, you're SOL.
What wrong with OTA Line up
Nothing, except there is no need for DRM recording when using OTA tuners. And since SD has stopped manufacturing of the Prime 3, and the Prime 6 is shelved for now, SD does not presently sell any device that needs DRM recording. Since the previous comment from Ned seems to imply that SD won't expend resources on software that won't drive hardware sales, the implication is that further development on DRM recording has been shelved.
Just to drive home the point I'm trying to make:

We are already going to do DVR-DRM support, with or without the PRIME 6. We are obligated to do so. People were asking about what the link was between DVR-DRM and PRIME 6, and that is what I was answering.

NedS
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by NedS » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:40 pm

This "reading between the lines" when there's nothing else to read into is one of the reasons companies don't answer questions about future products, BTW.

shspvr
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:54 pm

Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by shspvr » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:44 pm

NedS wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:40 pm
This "reading between the lines" when there's nothing else to read into is one of the reasons companies don't answer questions about future products, BTW.
I hit the Like Button but there isn't one ;)
Last edited by shspvr on Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

zimberto
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by zimberto » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:13 pm

[removed by moderator - see forum rules]

ZacMan
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by ZacMan » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:04 am

NedS wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:40 pm
This "reading between the lines" when there's nothing else to read into is one of the reasons companies don't answer questions about future products, BTW.
Thanks NedS some of us still have faith in SD and appreciate all the hard work and support. I've been enjoying the DVR service for years now and don't miss Media Center. Luckily I don't need to record any DRM and watching live is good enough for now.

jasondeanny
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by jasondeanny » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:04 pm

NedS wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:02 pm

To compensate for the delay, all KS backers and early-access customers have been getting free service all of this time. If everyone has been taking advantage of that, then the amount of lost income from renewals is larger than what we took in from Kickstarter (just from some simple math based on the publicly available Kickstarter data). It would actually be cheaper at this point had we refunded everyone, but we are still dedicated to delivering on our promises, no matter the setbacks we have faced.

Adding DRM-recording support and complying with all the laws and regulations that come with that is a massive undertaking. That "T" company might be the only ones that still do it, now that WMC is going off into the sunset, and they're a big company with a lot more resources. My point being, please don't underestimate this endeavor. It's not easy, but we will get it done.
Now I wish I jumped on the Kickstarter campaign... could have saved a few $$$. I'm probably like everyone else here - very disappointed that things haven't worked out as planned - but hopefully the wait is worth it and it becomes available sooner than later. I'm sure SD is as ticked and disappointed that they couldn't meet our expectations. I'll give Ned a lot of credit for taking the abuse and hate without losing it completely. I guess we all need to keep some perspective on this whole thing... Our lives won't be impacted that much and the world continues to spin. Thanks for the update and the letter that your CEO posted.

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