Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Reception, channel detection, network issues, CableCARD setup, etc.
ACraigo
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:32 pm
Device ID: 1062E8EE
Location: Deep Canyon in WV (by God)

Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by ACraigo » Tue May 14, 2019 9:40 am

Cranky64 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:37 am
Thanks. The photo is deceiving the coil is just to the left Velcroed to another cable. Balmer is 318 and DC is 270. To get direct to 270 I can mount the antenna further to the center line of the roof and shoot through a wall that is nothing more than vinyl siding and plywood instead of an oblique through the roof. If I have room, which I do up there would you recommend the 7698 or the CM 2020 to point to DC?
I would recommend taking a hammer to that thing you were going to send back - so nobody else can get it. The thing you're using now should aim at Balmer, the new massive Weingard should aim at DC.

You're doing a fine job. When it's all done and working you'll be proud.

Cranky64
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:40 pm

Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by Cranky64 » Tue May 14, 2019 12:54 pm

I think the larger antenna is going to work. I put the smaller wiengard on a ladder and I was able to get a lock on WRC but with some pretty good pixelation. The Connect said 43%, 48% and an 85% symbol.

Image

Cranky64
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:40 pm

Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by Cranky64 » Tue May 14, 2019 12:54 pm

I think the larger antenna is going to work. I put the smaller wiengard on a ladder and I was able to get a lock on WRC but with some pretty good pixelation. The Connect said 43%, 48% and an 85% symbol. In fact I was able to get the Baltimore stations pointed in this direction, so maybe the larger one can work fine on its own.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Aj7gU-E0dUdhgrIZ7aiseEcshouOAQ

jasonl
Silicondust
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Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by jasonl » Tue May 14, 2019 4:04 pm

The HD7694p has a 46° beam width at channel 50, and HD7698p is 33° at channel 50. You may struggle a bit to pick up WRC on channel 48 and also the Baltimore UHF stations 48 degrees off with that narrow of a beam. However, once WRC moves to channel 34 on 8/2, things get a bit more forgiving, with the HD7698p up to 41° on channel 32.

Now that I review it more, I forgot that the CM2020 has some screwiness on the lower UHF channels because of a suboptimal design, which will matter a lot for the Baltimore stations in particular, so I'd probably lean towards the HD7698p. Someone with more of a background in antenna design could probably fix the CM2020; my guess would be that adding about 0.9" of length to the little metal bits hanging off the UHF element (next to where the VHF connects) would fix things pretty adequately for the post-repack band, but I'm just basing that on what I've read without entirely knowing the physics behind it.

ACraigo
Posts: 478
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:32 pm
Device ID: 1062E8EE
Location: Deep Canyon in WV (by God)

Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by ACraigo » Tue May 14, 2019 4:08 pm

Cranky64 wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:54 pm
I think the larger antenna is going to work. I put the smaller wiengard on a ladder and I was able to get a lock on WRC but with some pretty good pixelation. The Connect said 43%, 48% and an 85% symbol. In fact I was able to get the Baltimore stations pointed in this direction, so maybe the larger one can work fine on its own.

Image
Yep, looks like you have 'the plan' under control.
Best case - the big Weingard does it all.
Next Best case - dueling Weingards.

The good news is you're using the most capable gear, so there's nowhere else to go. The experimental phase is over.

Cranky64
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:40 pm

Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by Cranky64 » Sat May 18, 2019 3:25 pm

I strapped that BIG Winegard 7689 to my ladder and with some tweaking I was able to get that DC channel to lock .
Signal Strength 45%
Signal Qulality 62%
Symbol 100%

I need to fashion a mount because the J mount I have for my old antenna does not have enough drop. I can also get the Baltimore stations acceptably in this configuration as well.

Thanks Again for the help!

sspell
Posts: 413
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:58 pm

Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by sspell » Sat May 18, 2019 4:36 pm

I ended up purchasing this one have no need for VHF. Antennas direct 91XG. Will see how it works with a DB8. Plan on running it on same mast with separate feed rg6 wires and a quatro dedicated to each antenna. Tuners with the weak channels disabled on each quatro think it will work? I have two sets of stations on different compass headings around here. Should I put the 91XG above or below the DB8? Your thoughts on my scheme welcomed.
Antennas direct 91XG shipped.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000L ... UTF8&psc=1
This I have already up on the mast Antennas direct DB8.
https://www.amazon.com/Element-Bowtie-I ... ics&sr=1-2
Last edited by sspell on Sat May 18, 2019 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jasonl
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Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by jasonl » Sat May 18, 2019 4:42 pm

45% is way less signal than I would expect with that antenna at that location. Are you sure about the materials on that wall and the direction it's pointed?

sspell have you linked a TVFool report? I don't know what you're trying to receive.

sspell
Posts: 413
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:58 pm

Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by sspell » Sat May 18, 2019 4:53 pm

Image
The stations to the south about 40 miles if the DB8 is pointed to the left stations the right fades visa versa. The DB8 is suppose to be wide coverage but at these distances it is not. Either one or the other with intermittent dropouts with the channels not on heading.

sspell
Posts: 413
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:58 pm

Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by sspell » Sat May 18, 2019 5:13 pm

Looks to me to be about a 10 degree compass heading difference and enough for occasional dropouts. Not all the time mind you but enough to be very annoying and sometimes unwatchable hate recording gibberish...

jasonl
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Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by jasonl » Sat May 18, 2019 5:43 pm

That shouldn't normally be enough of a difference to cause an issue, but your area looks like it has pretty heavy tree cover so maybe a couple dB makes a difference. You've tried rotating one half of the antenna to get the 10 degree difference, right? To have each set of 4 pointed at once cluster of stations.

I would not want to put both antennas on the same mast. Unless you can get them several feet apart they will likely interfere with each other in unpredictable ways. If you've got them mounted outdoors, that's a ton of wind load as well in an area that probably gets its share of thunderstorms.

sspell
Posts: 413
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Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by sspell » Sat May 18, 2019 5:51 pm

Yep lot of trees no way to get above them. I tried when I first put up the DB8 to point them different will try again right now they the same heading. I have it on a Wingard amp. Do you think separating the two halves of the DB8 with separate rg6 would help removing the combiner and two Quatro? Should get a few DB without the combiner the signal is close to being ok but needs to be on headings to be perfect. The mast is 30ft with guy wires.

jasonl
Silicondust
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Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by jasonl » Sat May 18, 2019 6:07 pm

If you remove the combiner you'll lose signal strength and directionality, so I wouldn't try that for now. You may want to try with the halves of the antenna pointed both outwards and inwards (if you can, I don't know if there's something that blocks it from going in) just to see what happens.

sspell
Posts: 413
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:58 pm

Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by sspell » Sat May 18, 2019 6:44 pm

Inwards interesting will try it. I think no problem doing that with 10 degree deflection.

Cranky64
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:40 pm

Re: Will an amplifier help a fringe channel?

Post by Cranky64 » Tue May 21, 2019 1:20 pm

Pretty frustrating > have the huge Wiengaud hanging nicely from the rafters pointing mostly out the side of the house with some pointing through the edge of the roof. I'm getting 100% signal strength but only 45% Quality and no symbol quality. Why would a signal be 100% but the rest is poor?

Edit, now the signal strength dropped to 43% without touching a thing.

Thanks

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