Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

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Ken.F
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by Ken.F » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:14 am

rrussis82 wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:37 pm
It's because they are greedy and want you to "subscribe" and pay what they charge the cable providers to offer the channel to you.. ATSC 3.0 will have the ability to "phone back to" the broadcaster to verify that type of setup.
Does anyone know the exact wording where the FCC requires them to broadcast OTA. does it specifically state broadcast OTA for free?
They can charge subscriptions for broadcast TV now if they want to. Apparently they don't want to.
47 CFR §73.644 Subscription TV transmission systems.
"Licensees and permittees of commercial and noncommercial TV broadcast and low power TV stations may conduct subscription operations..."

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveEC ... .4.73_1644

jseymour
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by jseymour » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:42 am

The problem is cord-cutting has accelerated over the last year, it had accelerated last year over the year before, it's expected to accelerate still further this year, and next, and... Where this impacts OTA providers is they've grown fat and lazy on retransmission fees. As the people who've been paying those fees start to press for reductions, rather than increases, due to decreased subscriptions, the OTA providers will be looking for ways to replace that lost revenue.

It doesn't take a degree in rocket surgery to figure out whence they hope to obtain it. It's going to cost them a lot of money to put in ATSC 3.x. Businesses rarely spend money w/o expecting a return on the investment.

Won't happen this year or next, but you can bet your bottom dollar it will happen.

I'm glad I've always liked to read :)

rrussis82
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by rrussis82 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:21 am

Do you know if ATSC 3 will have a further range at the same frequencies? Is it a change in the wave length that will allow it to reach places current ATSC 1 doesn't? I also wonder if they do end up in the long run charging for it how it would compare in price to basic cable. and if they would allow cable subscribers to use it with their cable subscription as a backup when cable is down. So many what ifs. commercials bring in revenue to them so I'm sure many people would be upset if they charged. There would probably be more people searching for illegal ways to obtain it than there is now. In my opinion, if they want to charge, it better be commercial free, but that is not going to happen, they would need to find a way to offset their broadcast to the line up with the commercial filled broadcast.

wellthatsnotgood
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by wellthatsnotgood » Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:40 pm

rrussis82 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:21 am
Do you know if ATSC 3 will have a further range at the same frequencies?
No, it will not.
rrussis82 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:21 am
Is it a change in the wave length that will allow it to reach places current ATSC 1 doesn't?
Yes. It will handle multipath much better than ATSC 1.0, so it will be better anywhere without direct line of sight to the transmitters. It will also work better in a distributed transmission system (where the broadcaster sets up multiple transmitters to cover an area) to help fill in any gaps (although whether that will be widely adopted or not is still to be seen).

jasonl
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by jasonl » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:54 pm

ATSC M/H (mobile/handheld) had the provision for an encryption system. Most stations that launched M/H signals did not use it at the start, but later turned it on. The whole point was to lock out generic receivers and only allow the use of certified receivers that were required to phone home with your viewing habits. The entire concept of M/H was flawed, few receivers were ever sold, and at this point it's little more than a footnote in history, with most stations having long ago eliminated that waste of bandwidth and instead switched to carrying more subchannels that make money via traditional advertising methods.

ATSC 3.0 will have better performance under adverse reception conditions, with the biggest reason being a switch to the technically superior OFDM system for transmission. OFDM does a far better job of dealing with multipath and other common problems than 8VSB does, which is why reception issues on DVB-T are much less common than they are with ATSC (DVB-T uses OFDM). OFDM was also proposed for the original ATSC standard, but the Grand Alliance decided for some minor technical and major financial reasons to go with 8VSB, which was a bad decision at the time and hasn't gotten any better since then. Saying ATSC 3.0 will have more range than ATSC is an incorrect oversimplification, as the primary limitation on distance is terrain (hills, curvature of the earth), not the signal itself. The biggest improvements from ATSC 3.0 are likely to be seen by people in cities using indoor antennas, as well as those who have a lot of foliage issues. A proper distributed transmission system will also help in markets that have a lot of hills that limit coverage to certain parts of the market. The Harrisburg/York/Lancaster, PA, and Tuscon, AZ, markets jump out as ideal candidates.

bob53bob
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by bob53bob » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:54 pm

So, the $64,000 question....will there be an ATSC 3.0 HDHR and if so, when is that likely to happen ? If there will be 26 markets on with 3.0 by year's end, I would be interested in one, hopefully with an HDMI output to feed my soon to be acquired 4K HDTV.

neil459
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by neil459 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:49 am

bob53bob wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:54 pm
So, the $64,000 question....will there be an ATSC 3.0 HDHR and if so, when is that likely to happen ? If there will be 26 markets on with 3.0 by year's end, I would be interested in one, hopefully with an HDMI output to feed my soon to be acquired 4K HDTV.
The bigger question is whether the "phone home" or other tracking capabilities of ATSC 3.0 will be opt in, opt out, or no options other than what advertisers want. If the latter, I would not hold my breath for a wide adoption very quickly. I know I sure won't buy one. Until we get more info about how invasive this technology will be, I for one am not interested. If this has been already defined, then please provide a pointer. A quick review of the standards was less than fruitful in this regard.

Of course this is where SD could become the Apple of ATSC 3.0, by making sure the user has full control. With full control meaning that the user can be completely anonymous, opt in to full tracking of programs, bedtime, wake time, calories consumed during dinner, home time, etc., or somewhere in between.

rpcameron
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by rpcameron » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:48 am

neil459 wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:49 am
The bigger question is whether the "phone home" or other tracking capabilities of ATSC 3.0 will be opt in, opt out, or no options other than what advertisers want. If the latter, I would not hold my breath for a wide adoption very quickly. I know I sure won't buy one. Until we get more info about how invasive this technology will be, I for one am not interested. If this has been already defined, then please provide a pointer. A quick review of the standards was less than fruitful in this regard.
Well, considering that all of SiliconDust's tuners phone home already, I'm not sure you can claim the high road about not purchasing an ATSC3 tuner for this reason.

Kendog52361
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by Kendog52361 » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:15 pm

Sinclair has selected the new transmitter for it's ATSC 3.0 upgrade. They are currently planning to upgrade 30 stations with the transmitter, but only around 26 will start broadcasting/transmitting ATSC 3.0 signals, this year.

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/sinclai ... en-ota-tv/

NedS
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by NedS » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:23 pm

rpcameron wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:48 am
neil459 wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:49 am
The bigger question is whether the "phone home" or other tracking capabilities of ATSC 3.0 will be opt in, opt out, or no options other than what advertisers want. If the latter, I would not hold my breath for a wide adoption very quickly. I know I sure won't buy one. Until we get more info about how invasive this technology will be, I for one am not interested. If this has been already defined, then please provide a pointer. A quick review of the standards was less than fruitful in this regard.
Well, considering that all of SiliconDust's tuners phone home already, I'm not sure you can claim the high road about not purchasing an ATSC3 tuner for this reason.
Downloading programming guide data isn't really the same thing as "phoning home". There's a reason support people still need users to turn on logging (which turns itself back off after ten days) when troubleshooting.

rpcameron
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by rpcameron » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:41 pm

NedS wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:23 pm
rpcameron wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:48 am
neil459 wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:49 am
The bigger question is whether the "phone home" or other tracking capabilities of ATSC 3.0 will be opt in, opt out, or no options other than what advertisers want. If the latter, I would not hold my breath for a wide adoption very quickly. I know I sure won't buy one. Until we get more info about how invasive this technology will be, I for one am not interested. If this has been already defined, then please provide a pointer. A quick review of the standards was less than fruitful in this regard.
Well, considering that all of SiliconDust's tuners phone home already, I'm not sure you can claim the high road about not purchasing an ATSC3 tuner for this reason.
Downloading programming guide data isn't really the same thing as "phoning home". There's a reason support people still need users to turn on logging (which turns itself back off after ten days) when troubleshooting.
While true that enabling debug logging seems to send additional data to SD, there is nothing documented about what exactly is being transmitted. While in general it does appear to be only regularly checking for device authorization for guide requests, there is no guarantee that that is all that is being sent. (I know that SD tuners can work perfectly well without an internet connection, but the errors in the logs are annoying and incessant if you go that route. Other than playing Big Brother, I can't see any real reason that SD needs data to be sent to them in the background. Full logging ought to be user-visible, and then sent to SD separately, not as an opaque operation.)

NedS
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by NedS » Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:24 pm

No data is sent except that which is needed for updating guide data, unless the logging option is checked or DVR is enabled (DVR rules being server side, and needing authentication, etc).

There is nothing immoral about the data SD gets, so yeah, I do think we have the moral high ground when it comes to other options that actively harvest user data for marketing purposes. SD takes user privacy seriously.

Sammy2
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by Sammy2 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:29 am

NedS wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:24 pm
No data is sent except that which is needed for updating guide data, unless the logging option is checked or DVR is enabled (DVR rules being server side, and needing authentication, etc).

There is nothing immoral about the data SD gets, so yeah, I do think we have the moral high ground when it comes to other options that actively harvest user data for marketing purposes. SD takes user privacy seriously.
Like YTTV. Sure wish I didn't have to go back to them when my current PremiumTV subscription dies.

Sammy2
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by Sammy2 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:30 am

If I use Emby, can I block the Quatro Primes from internet access in my router and get guide data from Emby?

jasonl
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by jasonl » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:32 am

HDHomeRun hardware is fully-functional without an internet connection. You will not get guide data from us or be able to access the device via my.hdhomerun.com if it does not have an internet connection.

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