Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Help and support for HDHomeRun DVR and HDHomeRun software for Windows 10, Mac, Android, XBox, etc.
NYPlayer
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby NYPlayer » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:32 am

Could you please clarify...SD support response seems to be tying release of DRM recording capabilities to be close (albeit before) to PRIME 6 launch. Although both releases are appealing, my main objective is to see DRM recording capabilities. As the PRIME 6 launch seems to be far off (not even sent yet to Cable Labs for certification) what is current status of DRM recording capabilities? Any chance of this capability being instituted even before PRIME 6 is sent to Cable Labs?
It is tied in one direction - protected content record support is required for PRIME6, PRIME6 is not required for protected content record support.

Nick
Does this mean no DRM recording no Prime 6 ?

JeffRand
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby JeffRand » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:26 am

Could you please clarify...SD support response seems to be tying release of DRM recording capabilities to be close (albeit before) to PRIME 6 launch. Although both releases are appealing, my main objective is to see DRM recording capabilities. As the PRIME 6 launch seems to be far off (not even sent yet to Cable Labs for certification) what is current status of DRM recording capabilities? Any chance of this capability being instituted even before PRIME 6 is sent to Cable Labs?
It is tied in one direction - protected content record support is required for PRIME6, PRIME6 is not required for protected content record support.

Nick
Does this mean no DRM recording no Prime 6 ?
That is what it sounds like to me. Why invest a lot of time and money into a product like the Prime 6 if the only thing that can use it to record DRM content is WMC? They need their DVR product to support DRM and be successful in order to drive sales for the Prime 6.

GGRussell
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby GGRussell » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:45 am

That is what it sounds like to me. Why invest a lot of time and money into a product like the Prime 6 if the only thing that can use it to record DRM content is WMC? They need their DVR product to support DRM and be successful in order to drive sales for the Prime 6.
But there is still many places where there is no DRM. I have Spectrum and only channels with DRM on the main movies channels like HBO, SHowtime, Cinemax, etc. I now have 22 HBO channels and only 9 have DRM. Out of those 22, I have 11 X'ed out because they are 480i/720p or show really old movies. Of the 11 left, I only have 1 with DRM. My BIGGEST disappointment -- all the movies on HBO so far have only been stereo audio. So rarely watch those channels any more.

NYPlayer
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby NYPlayer » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:06 pm

That is what it sounds like to me. Why invest a lot of time and money into a product like the Prime 6 if the only thing that can use it to record DRM content is WMC? They need their DVR product to support DRM and be successful in order to drive sales for the Prime 6.
But there is still many places where there is no DRM. I have Spectrum and only channels with DRM on the main movies channels like HBO, SHowtime, Cinemax, etc. I now have 22 HBO channels and only 9 have DRM. Out of those 22, I have 11 X'ed out because they are 480i/720p or show really old movies. Of the 11 left, I only have 1 with DRM. My BIGGEST disappointment -- all the movies on HBO so far have only been stereo audio. So rarely watch those channels any more.
That is why I do not understand why the Prime6 is tied to DRM Recording … I only have Starz DRM.... and I have over 200 channels.

groundhog22
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby groundhog22 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:46 pm

Local storage on P-6?

scyto
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby scyto » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:44 pm

@nyplayer, because your scenario is one of many, your experience doesn’t equally the totality of all customer experience. They need to produce something that works for many scenarios. I expect the certification exercise of recording is couple to the hardware by the certification process for the hardware. It is going through process as a job lot. Seperating them now would likely reset the certification timeline for the hardware and firmware which would be back to square one, setting them back months.

dcalder
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby dcalder » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:33 pm

As the OP (original poster) on this thread, I wanted to provide an update on the lack of progress I've experienced. I feel I've given the provider ample room to make this right, so I'll let everyone know that it was Wave TV (a subsidiary of RCN) that I've been working with.

To recall, about a month ago they encrypted the local broadcast channels and at the same time added the CCI flag of 0x02 (copy once) to the feed for these stations. This disabled my ability to record my local broadcasts. I could still view live broadcasts. They have denied doing this repeatedly, but refuse to put any equipment on my line that shows they are not setting this flag. In addition they continue to say that it was something that changed in my equipment, coincidentally, with the change they made. Over this time, I've had to deal with their false and misleading reasons for my issue try to divert me from their ownership or wear me out.

My next step is to package up the thread from the trouble ticket and send a letter to the executive team at RCN. I will then go to the local broadcasters and let them know that I am no longer watching their late night tv and having to often miss their news shows that I like to record. After that, I will file a complaint with the FCC. I'll occasionally come back and let you know how this goes.

In the mean time, for your amusement. Here is the five wild goose chases they sent me on.

1. Wave first stated that the CCI flag is set by the local stations. This is not true as confirmed by the local stations.
2. Wave then said my system firmware must have changed coincidentally with their change. This was shown as incorrect by looking in the status of my equipment and by my equipment vendor (last firmware change was in August, at the time of this statement).
3. Wave then said that the regulations only refer to the broadcast stations. This is not true and this can be found in the regulations themselves (cable providers re: local broadcasts) and confirmed by my equipment manufacturer (SD).
4. Wave then said my system was suddenly confusing CCI with Encryption in detecting CCI Flag 0x02. This is in a completely separate part of the communications stack and is highly unlikely, but I also confirmed this with my equipment manufacturer.
5. Wave then said that my equipment was causing the Cable Card to set the CCI flag to 0X02 by default when the cable card detects incompatible downstream equipment. This is incorrect as indicated by the equipment manufacturer (above) and examining the protocol (there is no signal that goes back upstream related to this).

All through this I've just asked them to put a diagnostic unit on my feed and show me they are not sending me CCI 0x02. They refuse.

Ironically, it was Wave's indication that they intended to keep clear QAM on local broadcasts that was the reason I moved to their service. That and I just liked the idea they were a competitor to Comcast, who I was not happy with for going back on their promises. That was before Wave was bought by RCN and made a deal with a certain company that makes a recording box (which still works on their network due to its reduced feature set than SD's equipment).

nickk
Silicondust
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby nickk » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:43 pm

BTW - if the CCI value fails to authenticate the host (HDHomeRun) is required to apply CCI=3 (copy-never). Getting CCI=2 means the card sent CCI=2 and it authenticated correctly.

dcalder
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Resolved: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby dcalder » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:52 am

Sometimes the little guy wins. My service has been restored so that I can now use my HD Homerun to record my stations.

My appeal to the Wave executive team was successful.

Many thanks to Nick and Jason at Silicon Dust for providing the facts that gave me the confidence to overcome the relentless pushback I got from the Customer Service team.

Here is the e-mail I received back from Wave's VP of Engineering and Ops prior to them taking the action that resolved the problem.
Subject: CCI Bit..
Importance: High

Hello Mr. Calder,

I received your email that was sent to (the executive team) regarding the CC-BIT setting. My apologies that CS sent you on a ghost chase, I know exactly what you are referring to and I have pinged the headend staff to verify the Copy Protection settings on those channels. When properly configured the cable channels should be set to Copy Freely while the premiums (HBO and such) will be set to Copy Once. I should have an answer later today and I’ll reach back out to you once I have heard back.

Again, I apologize for the inconvenience and I totally understand how this impacted your HD Home Run..

Hang tight, we should have this resolved soon.

jseymour
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby jseymour » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:34 am

That surprises the dickens out of me. Glad for you you got it addressed. Your persistence is to be admired :)

wtg
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby wtg » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:39 pm

Congratulations... that's a great pay-off for some fantastic persistence but really is a shame how difficult it was to resolve. You might suggest in reply that they take this opportunity to train their support staff so that any such problem in the future doesn't take so long to get the attention it deserves and doesn't result in support staff providing bad information and making false statements to their customer.

I've personally been having trouble since my provider started requiring tuning adapters. I've had techs out 3 times and they don't have a clue what they're doing... the adapters never actually initialize - just keep flashing and through the web interface reports initialization failures - but the techs say that's how it's supposed to work and they don't know what wrong. It's been 3 months since I had them out as I was just tired of wasting my time and it's rare that I want to watch anything on the switched video channels anyway. You've inspired me to call them again! :)

ctviggen
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby ctviggen » Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:59 pm

No update on this? I'm still waiting to update my windows 7 HT computer to windows 10. (Doesn't windows 7 support run out soon?) Looks like support for Windows 7 ends January of next year:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows ... -7-support

The problem with using a Windows 7 machine is that if anything doesn't work, you're looking that threads that are many years old or there is no support. For instance, I had a great program that analyzed recorded TV and would automatically skip the commercials. It stopped working, and I reinstalled, to no avail. The threads I was looking at for the program were over a decade old. And the program hasn't been made or supported in many years. And no one is developing anything new for Windows 7.

Since I have one HT computer and one TV, I'm waiting for Silicondust to finally get recording of copy-protected material. But I can't wait forever.

smassey22180
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:11 am

Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby smassey22180 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:32 pm

No update on this? I'm still waiting to update my windows 7 HT computer to windows 10. (Doesn't windows 7 support run out soon?) Looks like support for Windows 7 ends January of next year:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows ... -7-support

The problem with using a Windows 7 machine is that if anything doesn't work, you're looking that threads that are many years old or there is no support. For instance, I had a great program that analyzed recorded TV and would automatically skip the commercials. It stopped working, and I reinstalled, to no avail. The threads I was looking at for the program were over a decade old. And the program hasn't been made or supported in many years. And no one is developing anything new for Windows 7.

Since I have one HT computer and one TV, I'm waiting for Silicondust to finally get recording of copy-protected material. But I can't wait forever.
Another option is Windows 8 WMC. It is still supported and works great. I am not giving up my WMC boxes until the SD app can do basic things WMC does.

foxbat121
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby foxbat121 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:44 am

Win8 WMC is an add on and I'm pretty sure Microsoft stopped selling WMC add-on couple years back. So, it is almost impossible to find a new Win8 with WMC right now.

zw633
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Re: Any recourse? Back to stone age. Everything DRM now

Postby zw633 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:13 pm

TL DR

DRM and encryption two different birds.

just about ALL cable is encrypted now days to prevent theft of service and to go all digital. totally allowed.

DRM is to prevent recording and theft of intellectual property ....... yeah right ...


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