ATSC 3.0: Sacramento, CA

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RonRN18
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Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:04 pm

ATSC 3.0: Sacramento, CA

Post by RonRN18 »

I'm anxiously awaiting ATSC 3.0 to begin in the Sacramento, California market. Back on April 21st, Hearst Commuinications made their application to make KQCA the lighthouse station for the market, with their NBC affiliate, KCRA, hosting KQCA's current content. On May 19, KXTV (ABC) jumped on-board, followed by KXTL (FOX) and KOVR (CBS) following suit several days later.

I'm have no idea if they will immediately begin broadcasting the ATSC 3.0 stream tomorrow (June 15) but apparently the content currently being broadcasted on KQCA will be moved tomorrow at 10 AM.

The biggest surprise to me in this is KOVR jumping on the KQCA lighthouse. Hearst and CBS both own two major television stations each in this market with Hearst owning KCRA and KQCA while CBS owns KOVR and KMAX. I was thinking KOVR would make KMAX a lighthouse station and go there instead. Maybe that still is in the plans, but they wanted to get the clock started for their CBS Network content before they were physically ready to change out their own equipment. I'm guessing that will have to happen before anyone experiments with going to 4K content (yes, I know that will be some time before I should expect that).

So, with NBC, ABC, FOX, and CBS going to ATSC 3.0 first, I'm wondering when PBS (KVIE) will begin migration. There are a few other television stations, but they are much smaller "bit-players" in the English-speaking market with little to no original content.

joblo
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Sacramento, CA

Post by joblo »

RonRN18 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:40 pm The biggest surprise to me in this is KOVR jumping on the KQCA lighthouse. Hearst and CBS both own two major television stations each in this market with Hearst owning KCRA and KQCA while CBS owns KOVR and KMAX.
It's a good idea, though.

More discussion on this point in AVS 3.0 thread.

jasonl
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Sacramento, CA

Post by jasonl »

CBS has a bunch of duopolies and hasn't converted any of them. I can't blame them. Better to spend other people's money than your own, especially on technology that has yet to achieve any traction in this country.

RonRN18
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Sacramento, CA

Post by RonRN18 »

Well, today was the day they made the change. At this moment, there are six video streams: NBC, MyNetwork, CBS, FOX, ABC, and Univision. Of those six streams, CBS is the only one that has audio in AC-4; all of the other stations are currently using AC-3 audio. That is a positive at this moment because my Plex Media Server does not know what to make of AC-4 and instead of blindly saving it, it filters it out. This means that I can record content from the other streams but not CBS.

As I am playing with it, I am physically at work. My job just requires that I am available in an emergency to do something but otherwise, I have nothing else to do. I bring my laptop and tether my iPhone for Internet. I then use OpenVPN to connect to my home network. Sadly, the SiliconDust HDHomeRun player app does not allow you to manually enter the IP address of the tuner and will only scan your current sub-network for a tuner. Being on a VPN connection, I'm on a different sub-network than my home network, even though I allow communications across my VPN and home networks. Since the SiliconDust app won't work at work, I've tried using VLC. VLC allows me to play all the streams by entering the URL for each stream but I get no audio with CBS. I've recorded two-minute samples of each stream by entering http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx::5004/auto/v103.1?duration=120, where the xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx represents my HDHomeRun HDHR5-4K device and in my example, the virtual channel for NBC. I was able to use Mediainfo to see the details of each stream.

Here is KCRA (NBC):

Code: Select all

General
ID                                       : 1 (0x1)
Complete name                            : C:\Users\bigron\Downloads\v103.mpeg
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
File size                                : 54.3 MiB
Duration                                 : 2 min 0 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 3 780 kb/s
FileExtension_Invalid                    : ts m2t m2s m4t m4s tmf ts tp trp ty

Video
ID                                       : 49 (0x31)
Menu ID                                  : 3 (0x3)
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L4.1@Main
HDR format                               : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : 36
Duration                                 : 2 min 0 s
Bit rate                                 : 3 108 kb/s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 0)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.025
Stream size                              : 44.5 MiB (82%)
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : BT.2020
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0047 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 400 cd/m2

Audio #1
ID                                       : 50 (0x32)
Menu ID                                  : 3 (0x3)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 1 min 58 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 384 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 6 channels
Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : 1 s 942 ms
Stream size                              : 5.41 MiB (10%)
Language                                 : English
Service kind                             : Complete Main

Audio #2
ID                                       : 51 (0x33)
Menu ID                                  : 3 (0x3)
Format                                   : AC-3
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name                          : Dolby Digital
Codec ID                                 : 129
Duration                                 : 1 min 58 s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 96.0 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : 2 s 6 ms
Stream size                              : 1.35 MiB (2%)
Language                                 : Spanish
Service kind                             : Complete Main

Menu
ID                                       : 48 (0x30)
Menu ID                                  : 3 (0x3)
Duration                                 : 2 min 0 s
List                                     : 49 (0x31) (HEVC) / 50 (0x32) (AC-3, English) / 51 (0x33) (AC-3, Spanish) / 57 (0x39) ()
Language                                 :  / English / Spanish

And here is KOVR (CBS):

Code: Select all

General
ID                                       : 1 (0x1)
Complete name                            : C:\Users\bigron\Downloads\v113.mpeg
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
File size                                : 51.5 MiB
Duration                                 : 2 min 0 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 3 587 kb/s
FileExtension_Invalid                    : ts m2t m2s m4t m4s tmf ts tp trp ty

Video
ID                                       : 49 (0x31)
Menu ID                                  : 3 (0x3)
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main@L4.1@Main
Codec ID                                 : 36
Duration                                 : 2 min 0 s
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Standard                                 : Component
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 0)
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Transfer characteristics                 : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709

Audio #1
ID                                       : 50 (0x32)
Menu ID                                  : 3 (0x3)
Format                                   : AC-4
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 4
Commercial name                          : Dolby AC-4
Format version                           : Version 2
Codec ID                                 : 6
Duration                                 : 1 min 58 s
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : 2 s 32 ms
Language                                 : Spanish
I-Frame interval                         : 8 frames
Number of presentations                  : 1
Number of substreams                     : 1
Presentation #1                          : Stereo Main
 Dialogue normalization                  : -24.00
 Loudness                                : Yes
  Integrated loudness (speech gated)     : -24.8 LKFS (Automated C or L+R)
  Integrated loudness (level gated)      : -24.5 LKFS
  Audio Loudness Standard                : Manual
  Realtime loudness corrected            : Yes
  Dialogue corrected                     : Yes (Automated C or L+R)
 Dynamic Range Control                   : Yes
 Group #s                                : 1
Group #1                                 : Main
 Content classifier                      : Main
 Channel coded                           : Yes
 Number of substreams                    : 1
 Substream #s                            : 1
Substream #1                             : Stereo
 Channel mode                            : Stereo
 Channel layout                          : L R
 Preprocessing                           : Yes
  Phase 90 Filer Info 2-ch               : Applied
 Dialogue enhancement                    : Yes
  Enabled                                : Yes
  Max gain                               : 9 dB
  Channel configuration                  : L

Audio #2
ID                                       : 51 (0x33)
Menu ID                                  : 3 (0x3)
Format                                   : AC-4
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 4
Commercial name                          : Dolby AC-4
Format version                           : Version 2
Codec ID                                 : 6
Duration                                 : 1 min 58 s
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 29.970 FPS (1601.6 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : 2 s 21 ms
Language                                 : English
I-Frame interval                         : 8 frames
Number of presentations                  : 1
Number of substreams                     : 1
Presentation #1                          : 5.1 Main
 Dialogue normalization                  : -24.00
 Loudness                                : Yes
  Integrated loudness (speech gated)     : -24.0 LKFS (Automated individual front channels)
  Integrated loudness (level gated)      : -23.3 LKFS
  Audio Loudness Standard                : Manual
  Realtime loudness corrected            : Yes
  Dialogue corrected                     : Yes (Automated individual front channels)
 Dynamic Range Control                   : Yes
 Downmix                                 : Yes
  LoRo center mix gain                   : -3.0 dB
  LoRo surround mix gain                 : -3.0 dB
  LtRt center mix gain                   : -3.0 dB
  LtRt surround mix gain                 : -3.0 dB
  LFE mix gain                           : -3 dB
  Preferred downmix                      : LtRt
 Group #s                                : 1
Group #1                                 : Main
 Content classifier                      : Main
 Channel coded                           : Yes
 Number of substreams                    : 1
 Substream #s                            : 1
Substream #1                             : 5.1
 Channel mode                            : 5.1
 Channel layout                          : L R C LFE Ls Rs
 Preprocessing                           : Yes
  Phase 90 filter info                   : Not applied
  Surround attenuation known             : No
  LFE attenuation known                  : No
 Dialogue enhancement                    : Yes
  Enabled                                : Yes
  Max gain                               : 9 dB
  Channel configuration                  : C

Looking at the output of Bandscan (in debug mode) I see the following for RF channel 23:

Code: Select all

SCANNING: 527000000 (us-bcast:23)
LOCK: atsc3 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
PROGRAM 1: 103.1 NBC
PROGRAM 2: 158.1 My58
PROGRAM 3: 113.1 CBS
PROGRAM 4: 140.1 FOX
PROGRAM 5: 110.1 ABC
PROGRAM 6: 119.1 Uni
I'm sure many people don't care about this, but these are some of the answers to many of the questions I had for the rollout. I'm not sure how long they will keep AC-3 audio and how long it will be before I can make use of AC-4. I do have a modern Roku attached to every television in the house, so I'm hoping I'll be able to watch live TV until Plex is made capable of working with AC-4.

jasonl
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Sacramento, CA

Post by jasonl »

Switch your VPN from tun (routed) to tap (bridged) and the app should work.

sdust
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Sacramento, CA

Post by sdust »

I find this udp proxy helpful - https://gist.github.com/mike-zhang/3853251

Just run it as:

Code: Select all

go run udpProxy.go  -P 65001 -p 65001 -v 6 -H ip_address_of_homerun_device
Makes your device from the remote network discoverable.

RonRN18
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:04 pm

Re: ATSC 3.0: Sacramento, CA

Post by RonRN18 »

jasonl wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:31 pm Switch your VPN from tun (routed) to tap (bridged) and the app should work.
I am using pfSense on my home network. I've created a second VPN profile that uses TAP instead of TUN but somewhere, somehow, I have some routing information incorrect in my TAP setup. The good news with using the bridged profile is that I am given an IP address within the same sub-net as my normal LAN and I am able to use the SiliconDust app to watch from somewhere other than at home. The bad news is that is pretty much ALL I can do with that profile. I'm able to access anything on my LAN, just not much else. I'm still looking to see what I've messed up, but since I created it as an option, it is easy to go from one profile to another, depending on what I want to do.

tzr916
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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: ATSC 3.0: Sacramento, CA

Post by tzr916 »

Code: Select all

SCANNING: 527000000 (us-bcast:23)
LOCK: atsc3 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
PROGRAM 1: 103.1 NBC
PROGRAM 2: 158.1 My58
PROGRAM 3: 113.1 CBS
PROGRAM 4: 140.1 FOX
PROGRAM 5: 110.1 ABC
PROGRAM 6: 119.1 Uni
Are these station call signs just "made up" by the HDHR device? Or does the station information contain these call signs? Will the call signs change later to something like KCRA-NG or KOVR-NG (I'm already seeing these kind of listings in my comcast cable guide). I am currently using a different guide provider and they seem to be stumped on ATSC 3.0

nickk
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Sacramento, CA

Post by nickk »

tzr916 wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:52 am

Code: Select all

SCANNING: 527000000 (us-bcast:23)
LOCK: atsc3 (ss=100 snq=100 seq=100)
PROGRAM 1: 103.1 NBC
PROGRAM 2: 158.1 My58
PROGRAM 3: 113.1 CBS
PROGRAM 4: 140.1 FOX
PROGRAM 5: 110.1 ABC
PROGRAM 6: 119.1 Uni
Are these station call signs just "made up" by the HDHR device? Or does the station information contain these call signs? Will the call signs change later to something like KCRA-NG or KOVR-NG (I'm already seeing these kind of listings in my comcast cable guide). I am currently using a different guide provider and they seem to be stumped on ATSC 3.0
The channel names come from the broadcast.

The channel numbers come from the broadcast but the HDHomeRun adds 100 to keep them separate from ATSC 1.0 channels. So 103.1 is really 3.1

Nick

kyl416
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Sacramento, CA

Post by kyl416 »

Since it's the same content as the ATSC 1.0 feeds, just use whatever 3rd party application you are using to map the existing guide data entries for KCRADT, KXTVDT, KOVRDT, KUVSDT, KTXLDT and KQCADT to the fake 100 numbers.

Schedules Direct isn't going to screw up their OTA lineups and break other importers used with applications that only know how to handle two digit major numbers by adding fake channel numbers that only apply to HDHomeRun and aren't the actual numbers being transmitted by the ATSC 3.0 signal.


BTW, I wouldn't get used to these stations using AC-3 audio. The ATSC 3.0 specs call for AC-4 audio, so this might just be a temporary setup until the rest of the stations finish reconfiguring their encoding path to output AC-4 on the ATSC 3.0 signal and AC-3 on their ATSC 1.0 signals.

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