ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

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kyl416
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by kyl416 »

xmguy wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:17 pmI can’t seem to find any info on how folks receive said station. I guess it might be an Evoca market?
Evoca has nothing to do with Phoenix, they're only in Boise. They don't carry any locals except for BYU-TV's satellite feed which they have in the clear to meet the FCC's requirements to have at least one unencrypted service, everything else on their signals are encrypted cable channels like GSN, Weather Channel, Bloomberg, Hallmark, Insight 4K, etc. For the broadcast networks and diginets subscribers pick them up via their regular ATSC 1.0 signals.

xmguy
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by xmguy »

signcarver wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 12:49 pm I don't believe It has been encrypted since about October/November time frame... it was encrypted during much of the ks.
Sorry what is "ks"?

bobchase
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

xmguy wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:58 am I read on Rabbit Ears that KPNX NBC on 3.0 in Phoenix is encrypted. Is this true? If so what does it mean for HDHR4K users? I ask, because I'm concerned this may become a trend that all stations will follow to get more money.
I don't believe that we ever applied DRM (encryption) to the actual 12.1 feed. If we did, it was for a quick test of the DRM with the TV's, take a five minute pcap, and return to normal. We have used NBC, CBS and the two Univision feeds for long term DRM testing but that was always as 35.xx channel and was called TEST*xx in the short name. (xx would be a number between 10 and 20). What it presently means for Silicon Dust users is that you won't see the DRM channel in the list when you do a rescan. Just marking the feed "protected" in the MPD will eliminate that station from showing up, DRM or no DRM.

Let's not confuse DRM with money. Yes, a monetary transaction is possible within the standard but that's not the present reason for DRM testing. Think theft of services and copy protection. Whether it will ever be implemented across the boards - who knows. It's still early days.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by xmguy »

bobchase wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 9:30 pm
xmguy wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 10:58 am I read on Rabbit Ears that KPNX NBC on 3.0 in Phoenix is encrypted. Is this true? If so what does it mean for HDHR4K users? I ask, because I'm concerned this may become a trend that all stations will follow to get more money.
I don't believe that we ever applied DRM (encryption) to the actual 12.1 feed. If we did, it was for a quick test of the DRM with the TV's, take a five minute pcap, and return to normal. We have used NBC, CBS and the two Univision feeds for long term DRM testing but that was always as 35.xx channel and was called TEST*xx in the short name. (xx would be a number between 10 and 20). What it presently means for Silicon Dust users is that you won't see the DRM channel in the list when you do a rescan. Just marking the feed "protected" in the MPD will eliminate that station from showing up, DRM or no DRM.

Let's not confuse DRM with money. Yes, a monetary transaction is possible within the standard but that's not the present reason for DRM testing. Think theft of services and copy protection. Whether it will ever be implemented across the boards - who knows. It's still early days.
Thank you for explaining. Time will tell what happens. So far the only DRM/Pay service on 3.0 is that in Boise, ID with Evoca.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by jasonl »

Not ATSC 3.0 related, but since most Phoenix people are probably following this thread, I'm going to post here anyway. Tomorrow, KPNX is starting a project to replace their antenna, which is the biggest part of their move from high VHF channel 12 to UHF channel 18. Expect power reductions on nearby stations during off-peak hours (generally, 9am-4pm and possibly overnight 11pm-6am), though the reductions will often only be for a few hours within that window and some days will have no reductions at all. Affected stations are KAET, KPNX, and KNXV on the TV side and 92.3, 93.3, and 98.7 on the radio side. Supposed to end June 24.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

27 is back off the air for me... not even detecting it as digital television (usually quickly states ATSC3).Strength is reported as -34dBm. Not sure when this started as I didn't check the last few days because of the holiday (I think I last checked Saturday morning). Though not ATSC3. 12 (as mentioned by jasonl) and physical 18 (kind of mentioned as that is where it is moving) and 36 are also not coming in as usual.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

signcarver wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:12 pm 27 is back off the air for me... not even detecting it as digital television (usually quickly states ATSC3).Strength is reported as -34dBm. Not sure when this started as I didn't check the last few days because of the holiday (I think I last checked Saturday morning). Though not ATSC3. 12 (as mentioned by jasonl) and physical 18 (kind of mentioned as that is where it is moving) and 36 are also not coming in as usual.
The Shaw Butte transmitter is now off the air for awhile and 27 may be better for you now.
KPNX is on 12 and is moving to 18 but the 18 transmitter/antenna are still being installed, so look for them on 12.
KNXV is at low power during the day so that they don't toast the riggers on the KPNX tower.
KAZT-CD is ch 7 (RF36) and I don't know what their problem may or may not be.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

Thanks, came back to say I see 27 back up now... seems to have a 3rd plp but no program information and also now shows the "no data" channels when the plp isn't selected (the past few months it only showed the channel info for the plp used).

Actually 0 seems to not have any channels(no data)... and needs 0+2 to get those channels

Edit: seems like things are changing around a bit as now I only see channels listed on plp 0 (but no data) but a few minutes ago I saw the the channels also listed on 1... and would now apparently need 0+1 or 0+2 to get anything but unlike before I can select all plps with no problem getting all 3 locked at once. Note that I am not able to get video as it seems the (new) scan puts everything on plp0 and for some reason plp0 takes a while longer to lock than the others and the symbol quality occasionally drops to 0 even though strength and snr are great I'll give it a few hours to maybe settle in.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

signcarver wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:57 pm Thanks, came back to say I see 27 back up now... seems to have a 3rd plp but no program information and also now shows the "no data" channels when the plp isn't selected (the past few months it only showed the channel info for the plp used).

Actually 0 seems to not have any channels(no data)... and needs 0+2 to get those channels

Edit: seems like things are changing around a bit as now I only see channels listed on plp 0 (but no data) but a few minutes ago I saw the the channels also listed on 1... and would now apparently need 0+1 or 0+2 to get anything but unlike before I can select all plps with no problem getting all 3 locked at once. Note that I am not able to get video as it seems the (new) scan puts everything on plp0 and for some reason plp0 takes a while longer to lock than the others and the symbol quality occasionally drops to 0 even though strength and snr are great I'll give it a few hours to maybe settle in.
They are going to reconfigure it yet again. 3 PLP's is correct. PLP0 with be signaling and ESG. PLP1 will be the old PLP0 programming and PLP2 will be the old PLP1 programming. They have to figure out the HTI blocks which I think will take them a bit.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by Bluehawk »

July 5, 2021

Receiving: 105.1, 108.4, 110.1, 112.1, 115.1, 133.1, and 135.1, 145.1, 161.1 . All good on Windows 10 PC , Nvidia Shield and 2020 Google Chromecast TV

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by Bluehawk »

Bluehawk wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:27 pm July 5, 2021
Repost
Receiving: 105.1, 108.4, 110.1, 112.1, 115.1, 133.1, and 135.1, 145.1, 161.1 . All good on Windows 10 PC , and Nvidia Shield .

kyl416
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by kyl416 »

Both KPHO and KPNX have filed to change their ATSC 3.0 hosts from KFPH-CD's RF 35 signal to KASW's RF 27 signal starting on July 8th.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

Yes, and both KTVK and KTAZ (Telmondo) will come up on KFPH.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by joblo »

kyl416 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:56 pm Both KPHO and KPNX have filed to change their ATSC 3.0 hosts from KFPH-CD's RF 35 signal to KASW's RF 27 signal starting on July 8th.
Excellent move! Especially if they go in the same PLP with ABC and FOX.

More discussion on this point in AVS 3.0 thread.
bobchase wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:20 pm Yes, and both KTVK and KTAZ (Telmondo) will come up on KFPH.
Also good, but not as significant as ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC parity.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

joblo wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:40 pm
Excellent move! Especially if they go in the same PLP with ABC and FOX.
Oh, you really don't want that - not enough bandwidth available. PLP1 and PLP2 only have 10 Mbps of data available in each one. Besides, even running an individual statmux on each PLP, you still need to keep some additional headroom for overages.

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