ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

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signcarver
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

I believe I'm aimed between shaw (north range) and lookout and it was Lookout that always gave me trouble when I lived 1-2 miles east a few years ago with 1.0 which I always said wouldn't be an issue if I was 1-2 miles north, east or west

bobchase
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

signcarver wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:17 pm I believe I'm aimed between shaw (north range) and lookout and it was Lookout that always gave me trouble when I lived 1-2 miles east a few years ago with 1.0 which I always said wouldn't be an issue if I was 1-2 miles north, east or west
OK, I changed the GI for you. Let me know the receive level on 35 and the signal quality.

Update - I spoke too soon. I think I just found a bug in the scheduler
Last edited by bobchase on Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

signcarver
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

Actually it made it so I can't get lock (signal between -86 and -83 dBm and quality 16-17dB... thanks for trying... I am at work right now (though still working from home) so not sure how quick I can get back and it probably isn't affecting too many people but thanks for trying

Of course as soon as I typed that it has been going in and out of having a lock with roughly the same signal levels

Edit: by the way 27 is more "steady" today with quality "fixed" at 11dB (still too low) but yesterday and in January it fluctuated a fair amount rather than remaining fixed (when using an amp range of the swing covered 10 db each reading (about a second apart), while without the amp was more like a 6dB range, today not swinging at all) for 27 my house could actually be getting in the way
Last edited by signcarver on Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

bobchase
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

signcarver wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:17 am Actually it made it so I can't get lock (signal between -86 and -83 dBm and quality 16-17dB... thanks for trying... I am at work right now (though still working from home) so not sure how quick I can get back and it probably isn't affecting too many people but thanks for trying

Of course as soon as I typed that it has been going in and out of having a lock with roughly the same signal levels
Yea, I found the bug but needed to work through some options to make certain that the I had the bug I identified. So we are on the air with a GI of 1536 now, which helps with long echos. I love the bleeding edge.

Update - So let me know your readings at this GI and then a little later, I'll move to a more aggressive FEC.

signcarver
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

As I edited above, I do get lock more consistently now but both seem a bit lower than before (seeing more red rather than yellow) and only occasionally goes out. The past moth I really didn't have issue with lock going out (since I lowered my antenna 2 feet on Feb 17)

Edit right now (10:31) -82dBm and 16-17dB

Edit 2: and 5 minutes later (10:36) quality goes up to 17db-18db (edited again to add times since post time got changed)

Edit 11:11 things have remained the same with no loss of lock strength: -82dBm (45%) quality: 18db (62%). I have been very pleased with picture quality (particularly on some previous tests the (extra) logo was the sharpest I've ever seen that almost made the picture seem poor by comparison)
Last edited by signcarver on Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

bobchase
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

signcarver wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:36 am As I edited above, I do get lock more consistently now but both seem a bit lower than before (seeing more red rather than yellow) and only occasionally goes out. The past moth I really didn't have issue with lock going out (since I lowered my antenna 2 feet on Feb 17)

Edit right now (10:31) -82dBm and 16-17dB

Edit 2: and 5 minutes later (10:36) quality goes up to 17db-18db (edited again to add times since post time got changed)
OK, FEC is 7/15 but I had to drop a service to do it. Any better?

signcarver
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

I wouldn't want you to drop any services for the rest of the area but yes it has been a little better but probably not enough to warrant as usually what you had isn't that bad for me except that one week a couple of months ago... the past month my "4K" is connected directly to a clearstream 4 max with reflector with no amp(s)... but when I dropped it 2 feet and removed the preamp I lost 36 which I still get with another antenna and preamp on my other tuners. After 3pm I am off for 10 days and I will see if I can find a place where I can get the strength up a bit

while writing this it did drop completely a minute ago but seems to be back the same

bobchase
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

Yes, I was testing that the transmitter stayed on the air when I put the scheduler into the bug-mode. It did, so the problem is indeed in the scheduler and I've sent in a bug report. I'm going back to the 'stock' configuration now. I just wanted to see if either of the settings would work for your situation. An thank you very much for your feedback.

Al K
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by Al K »

Just got my HD HomeRun today. I have everything working and scanned in 93 channels. But I don't think I receive any 3.0 channels. How are they identified?

I'm in the far north valley and may be out of range. Any ideas?

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by kyl416 »

The ATSC 3.0 channels will be in the 100s range.

If you want a rough idea check where you are in relative to these propogation maps:
KFPH-CD's RF 35 signal
KASW's RF RF 27 signal

If you want a more specific prediction, use the Signal Search Map at RabbitEars.

Al K
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by Al K »

It’s looking promising. I decided to update the software. Just before the app closed, I saw the 100’s channels listed on the screen. It’s taking forever for the new sw version to download, but I may at last receive some ATSC 3.0 channels.

Just to confuse everything, I changed antennas. I know better than to change to things at once, but I’m leaving everything as is if it works.

Thanks for the response.

signcarver
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

Today I am getting 27 back in... -54dBm strength and 29dB quality.

35 wasn't working for me again when bobchase switched stuff back (which is strange as it was working just prior to playing with it) but tonight it is working though strength and quality are red (-82dBm, 17db) it is maintaining lock.

On that map kyl416 posted a link to, I am at the start of the thin line of green north of bell to the right of 7th st. (the 7th st one goes a bit further south of bell) but one can see it is a very narrow strip.

As far as the map of 27 kyl416 linked to, keep in mind that 27 uses shaw butte as well as south mountain and that map only has south mountain. But with how varied my signal issues has been with them, I often wondered if both have always been in use the past 3 months.

joblo
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by joblo »

bobchase wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:33 amI'm going back to the 'stock' configuration now.
And is that the "256 QAM with 9/15 FEC" that you cited in the AVS 3.0 thread?

And what is the "stock" GI, 1024?

Al K
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by Al K »

Receiving: 105.1, 108.1, 108,4, 110.1, 112.1, 133.1, 135.1, 145.1 and 161.1. All good on Windows 10 PC.

Found out the hard way that Roku can’t output sound on ATSC 3.0 channels.

bobchase
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

joblo wrote: Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:39 am
bobchase wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:33 amI'm going back to the 'stock' configuration now.
And is that the "256 QAM with 9/15 FEC" that you cited in the AVS 3.0 thread?

And what is the "stock" GI, 1024?
Joblo. Perhaps I shouldn't use the term 'stock'. When it comes to the 3.0 mod/cod someone once told me there are 76,500 different configurations. I have no idea of the validity of that statement but there are a lot of settings. Consequently there are a few 'stock' setups we use for testing. The most used is an 'ATSC 1.0 like' setup of which, one of the setting is Guard Interval. In this case we use a GI of 1024. This is also known as Dx=3. The Forward Error Correction is set to 8/15 with 11/15 being a lighter error correction and a 7/15 being more robust. The constellation that is typically used for full service (lots of data) is QAM256 and it is also used in the "ATSC 1.0 like" setup. The smaller QAM settings of 16 or 64 are more robust and easier to decode in a noisy environment but with a throughput penalty. There is a ATSC Capacity Calculator on the Google Store if you want to play with some of the settings.

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