ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

ATSC 3.0 Forum
bobchase
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:25 pm
Device ID: 10810736
x 9

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

CBme wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:26 pm
bobchase wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:13 am We are back to a somewhat normal lineup on 35. The Univision App is taking up 2 Mbps of the available data rate, so AZPBS isn't there right now.
I'm in the Seattle market but we also have the app data being broadcast on our Univision channel. Are you aware of how it is supposed to/will work? Is the idea the player app should trigger the other Sinclair apps on the TV/Device or is it an overlay app that gets data from the internet but doesn't call to other device apps?
I don't imagine I want it or most any of the future apps having internet connectivity but I'm still curious as to how it is supposed to work as I've not seen any specifics about the model.
The Univision App is still a work in progress. It is supposed to work via both OTA and OTT. It is supposed to appear in 20 sec but takes 2 to 4 minutes to show up on my internet connected TV's. It is supposed to give you access to local weather by both, with enhanced weather data available via OTT. Similarly you should see the news team pictures and bio via OTT. News stories are future stuff and only OTT. At this point it kinda-sorta works on with the three TV manufacturers. It doesn't work on any IRD, tuner, or dongle player I have. It does not make calls to any other app other that the ESG that is being broadcast with it (but that function doesn't work yet). When it does, "On Now" and "Up Next" will populate. If the local Univision station also has a UniMas station, there is an App for it too, except that it is in Gray/Red instead of Blue.

Early, early days...

CBme
Posts: 147
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2020 2:15 pm
x 13

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by CBme »

bobchase wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:06 pm
CBme wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:26 pm
bobchase wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:13 am We are back to a somewhat normal lineup on 35. The Univision App is taking up 2 Mbps of the available data rate, so AZPBS isn't there right now.
I'm in the Seattle market but we also have the app data being broadcast on our Univision channel. Are you aware of how it is supposed to/will work? Is the idea the player app should trigger the other Sinclair apps on the TV/Device or is it an overlay app that gets data from the internet but doesn't call to other device apps?
I don't imagine I want it or most any of the future apps having internet connectivity but I'm still curious as to how it is supposed to work as I've not seen any specifics about the model.
The Univision App is still a work in progress. It is supposed to work via both OTA and OTT. It is supposed to appear in 20 sec but takes 2 to 4 minutes to show up on my internet connected TV's. It is supposed to give you access to local weather by both, with enhanced weather data available via OTT. Similarly you should see the news team pictures and bio via OTT. News stories are future stuff and only OTT. At this point it kinda-sorta works on with the three TV manufacturers. It doesn't work on any IRD, tuner, or dongle player I have. It does not make calls to any other app other that the ESG that is being broadcast with it (but that function doesn't work yet). When it does, "On Now" and "Up Next" will populate. If the local Univision station also has a UniMas station, there is an App for it too, except that it is in Gray/Red instead of Blue.

Early, early days...
Thanks for the additional detail. This is the detail of what is streaming with our univision station (no UniMas station).
viewtopic.php?p=369234#p369234

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 9677
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 10A05954 10802091 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F 15300C36
x 28

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

Since Saturday I have been unable to view anything on 35 as signal quality was reduced to 12-14dB (prior to that I got 16-19dB with and hadn't had issues with 35 since October). Today 27 is back to having virtually no signal quality (between 5 and 8 dB) like it was behaving for most of January for me. (I'm basically at 7th St and Bell)

I'll play with the antenna tonight and see if I can get 35 back but what I see with 27 I don't think I can fix and still get anything from south mountain.

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 9677
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 10A05954 10802091 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F 15300C36
x 28

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

FYI this morning 27 came back for me (still often reports higher in strength than any other OTA station by at least 10dBm, though occasionally it reports a bit weaker than 15 but it can vary on strength when it first locks just gets locked higher (a tune request can change from -29dBm to -39dBm but it remains constant once locked). Still having issue of 35 being on the edge as if I could increase s/n just a hair I'd probably get it.

bobchase
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:25 pm
Device ID: 10810736
x 9

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

The windows player won't run today. The Setup utility does and will open VLC and play the video. The Config Gui utility will open VLC and play the video. The Windows player cannot find the tuners.

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 9677
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 10A05954 10802091 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F 15300C36
x 28

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

Earlier today I wasn't able to see anything on 27 at all (there was signal strength compared to "empty" channels but no detected modulation). Now it is back but very poor signal quality and only seeing one plp and isn't locking. 35 finally came back for me today earlier and worked great until pbs and pbs kids got back on (at the time it was working I saw 35.1, 33.1, 2 encrypted tests and one unencrypted test and I think they were marked as 8 9 and 10, and it maintained lock and was able to watch without issue for an hour,. Later in the day the 2 PBS channels came on as well as 3 encrypted tests (labeled 5, 6, & 7) and it wasn't able to maintain lock but did every once in awhile.

35 has always been tough on me to get but was working just fine Nov-January then started having issues the day the "app" got put on. I did change my antenna setup a bit (at the time I changed it saw nothing on 27 and couldn't lock on 35) and it seems to now work better by lowering it about 2 feet and currently with no amplification (unhooked while changing things). Will have to wait until after prime time to try some other things.

bobchase
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:25 pm
Device ID: 10810736
x 9

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

There has been no real difference on 35 for over a week as far as reception goes. (Same power, same mod/cod) Changing the stream content, Major-Minor number, or Short Name doesn't affect reception. Changing the number of streams doesn't affect reception either as long as the PLP is not over subscribed and as 35 is running about 5 Mbps of padding (headroom) so it's not over subscribed. The encoder for 33.1 has issues and the vendor has been made aware of them.

I'll inquire with the guys over at 27 tomorrow. Right now I see all four streams but no ESG on 27. My HDHR is decoding all four.

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 9677
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 10A05954 10802091 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F 15300C36
x 28

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

Thanks bobchase. both 27 and 35 are coming in fine this morning and they seemed to have changed 27 to 1 plp. It just seemed very strange to me that when there were 2 less stations broadcasting on 35 yesterday that I had no issue maintaining lock and when they came back up I had issue but it could have been something in the evening air. Still trying to figure out why lowering the antenna 2 feet made such an improvement for me as there is literally nothing different above it like an overhang or tree.

My guess on 27 yesterday was they took things down when they made the switch to 1 plp, though not sure why when I first saw it come back up that I had virtually no signal quality but it behaved much like what I saw in much of January which I attributed to being so close to shaw butte.

Bluehawk
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:37 pm
Device ID: 1031AB0B 103436F7 1054A790 1054B12E 1072B2F3 1317A118 1323884C 1080C753

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by Bluehawk »

Things haven't been good here in a way. Receive 110.1, 115.1, 133.1, 135.1, 145.1, and 161.1. Looks like for now 5, 8 and 12 are out of the game. The good news is the others seem very good.

bobchase
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:25 pm
Device ID: 10810736
x 9

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

@Bluehawk
Yeah, we have been testing things that HDHR can't see. This week we are going to measure channel change times again. Stood up a couple of stations for you to watch a day early.

xmguy
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:30 am
Device ID: 10815046, 1037F17E
Location: McMinnville, TN
x 5

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by xmguy »

signcarver wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 12:26 pm FYI this morning 27 came back for me (still often reports higher in strength than any other OTA station by at least 10dBm, though occasionally it reports a bit weaker than 15 but it can vary on strength when it first locks just gets locked higher (a tune request can change from -29dBm to -39dBm but it remains constant once locked). Still having issue of 35 being on the edge as if I could increase s/n just a hair I'd probably get it.
I am seeing this as well. When I first lock on to the Nashville, TN ATSC 3.0 signals they are around 70% (signal quality). Then they drop to 65-70%. I could get a QAM356/PLP1 if I could get a 70% signal level, with about 30% signal quality.

Bluehawk
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:37 pm
Device ID: 1031AB0B 103436F7 1054A790 1054B12E 1072B2F3 1317A118 1323884C 1080C753

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by Bluehawk »

bobchase wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:00 pm @Bluehawk
Yeah, we have been testing things that HDHR can't see. This week we are going to measure channel change times again. Stood up a couple of stations for you to watch a day early.
Added 105.1 and 112.1. Looks good, thanks.

Bluehawk
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:37 pm
Device ID: 1031AB0B 103436F7 1054A790 1054B12E 1072B2F3 1317A118 1323884C 1080C753

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by Bluehawk »

This is a good day. I'm getting 105.1, 108.1, 108.4, 110.1, 112.1, 115.1, 135.1, 135.11, 145.1, 161.1 Using HdHomeRun app on windows 10 and Chromecast with Google TV.


Someone that wants to watch these channels on an inexpensive device using the HDHomerun app might want to try the google chromecast tv, the new chromecast with a remote. I have the chromecast connected to a monitor's HDMI port that has built in speakers. My monitor is about the most unsophisticated sound device you can buy. Select Settings>Display & Sound>Advanced sound settings>Manual> then I have all the options under that selected. Didn't take time to test one by one. This is the same selections you make on an Nvidia Shield to make it work. I'm posting this here rather than in the thread on the subject, as I can only verify that it works in the Phoenix area.
Last edited by Bluehawk on Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

signcarver
Expert
Posts: 9677
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:04 am
Device ID: 10A05954 10802091 131B34B7 13231F92 1070A18E 1073ED6F 15300C36
x 28

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by signcarver »

For me I was going to report the opposite as 27, which (coincidentally) switched back to 2 plp's, can't get lock just as it was in January despite -57dBM (88%) signal strength (in /January it could reach as high as -19dBm well above 100% but usually around -29dBm) but not getting anything from it as quality is only 7.xdB (5-7%) I am just 5 miles NE from shaw butte. My friend south of cactus (supposedly) isn't having any problems. Any chance the signals from south mountain(range) and "north" mountain (range) are cancelling each other out?

35 Has been great for me for awhile now (other than the testing going on which I don't find fault with) despite strength being a dismal -82dBm (47% give or take) and 16-18dB quality (45-50%).

bobchase
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:25 pm
Device ID: 10810736
x 9

Re: ATSC 3.0: Phoenix - Jan 2021

Post by bobchase »

signcarver wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:01 pm For me I was going to report the opposite as 27, which (coincidentally) switched back to 2 plp's, can't get lock just as it was in January despite -57dBM (88%) signal strength (in /January it could reach as high as -19dBm well above 100% but usually around -29dBm) but not getting anything from it as quality is only 7.xdB (5-7%) I am just 5 miles NE from shaw butte. My friend south of cactus (supposedly) isn't having any problems. Any chance the signals from south mountain(range) and "north" mountain (range) are cancelling each other out?

35 Has been great for me for awhile now (other than the testing going on which I don't find fault with) despite strength being a dismal -82dBm (47% give or take) and 16-18dB quality (45-50%).
There is a very good chance that you are in a null zone for 27 which you actually shouldn't be in. The folks that did the testing during the recent 1 PLP period will be digesting the data they took and publishing a report for us. If it is what we suspect, I'd imagine more testing and than possibly redoing the transmitter timing offsets followed by more testing. Welcome to the bleeding edge...

As for 35, you are on the theoretical edge of reception which I don't think that just mileage accounts for. The present mod/cod has a required SNR of 15.5 dB to receive it, which puts it where a 1.0 station would be (as far as SNR goes). We could change the guard interval so that it would help with long echo cancellation but with a throughput cost. However, I'm not certain your specific issue is long echos. I'd think that you might have excessive multipath from two near peaks at Shaw Butte while looking at south mountain between them. We could play with both GI and FEC to see if it helps but for most testing we have to be where we are right now.

Post Reply