ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - 2020

ATSC 3.0 Forum
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CBme
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ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - 2020

Post by CBme »

Creating a Seattle & Tacoma thread for any issues specific to our market with HDHR. (there is also thread on AVSForum for the market)

Launch date for all the stations is now set for Dec 15th. Their filings targeted the 8th but due to "timing issues with installs in the market", they have moved the official launch date out a week.

Best to only post discussions or questions about possible issues specific to the market in this thread. Any technical or other question that could apply more broadly to HDHR & atsc3.0 should get it's own post (or may already have its own post from someone else that you can add to).

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by Mediaman »

KOMO Seattle [virtual channel 4.1] went live today. My LG tv via the LG app can play it as well as my desktop with windows update for audio and my laptop with GTX 1060 video card built in did not need the windows audio upgrade to play audio. Signal very weak and using real number24 for source rather than 30 for atsc 1.0 which was more stable and typically higher symbol quality. Currently we have moderate storm system in the area. Laptop is most stable with short losses of signal. May have to adjust antenna direction if I can find out where they set up the signal at?

kyl416
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by kyl416 »

The ATSC 3.0 signals are coming from the same towers and antennas as their former ATSC 1.0 signals on Queen Anne Hill.

KONG's ATSC 3.0 signal on RF 31 is from this tower, that signal also has NextGen simulcasts of KCPQ, KZJO and KING:
https://www.rabbitears.info/tower.php?r ... rn=1032128

KUNS's ATSC 3.0 signal on RF 24 is from this tower, that signal also has NextGen simulcasts of KOMO and KIRO:
https://www.rabbitears.info/tower.php?r ... rn=1032456

CBme
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by CBme »

Interesting. I've got a very strong signal to most every channel here in Kirkland but I just did a scan at ~12:50pm and don't see anything a ch24 yet. But everything that was on the 24s previously has been moved. So has everything on 31 so they have cleared them out, I just don't see the new broadcasts having started.
Komo is still showing ch30-3 for me and is 8vsb. I'm doing a scan with both my 1.0 and my 3.0 HDRH's. Maybe they just turned it on for a minute or are running at extremely low power at the moment.

I took a snapshot of the channel scan last night and I see a lot of channels having moved around so far this morning.
https://imgur.com/a/vUA5TaN

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by kyl416 »

The live bandscan in Lacey shows RF 24 and RF 31 switching to ATSC 3.0 at around 10am PST:
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_gra ... r1/KUNS-TV <-- RF 24 from an ATSC 1.0 only tuner
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_gra ... r1/KUNS-TV <-- RF 24 from a HDHR4K
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_gra ... uner1/KONG <-- RF 31 from an ATSC 1.0 only tuner
https://rabbitears.info/tvdx/signal_gra ... uner1/KONG <-- RF 31 from a HDHR4K


Make sure you are using the hdhomerun_config_gui that comes with the latest version of the HDHomeRun Software for Windows so you have the PLP options for ATSC 3.0 signals:
https://download.silicondust.com/hdhome ... indows.exe

(The standalone download of the hdhomerun_config_gui that some people have incorrectly linked to in the past is for their rack mounted TECH devices and doesn't include the ATSC 3.0 features that were added in September's updates)

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by CBme »

Well apparently that was the issue as my build was 2 days to old. 10-28 vs this one which says 10-30. Thanks! I disabled my old HDHR for now to reduce my confusion as to whether something is working or not.

I rescanned and saw Ch31 but I didn't see anything from 24 on my first scan but a scan about 10 minutes later popped up two of them. All are at 100% strength and quality at my location. Strangely my Setup Scan doesn't show KUNS on 5005 but it is showing in the Config GUI.

However trying to View 24 shows nothing and I get no network rate. Like it is somehow broadcasting but broadcasting nothing.

Channel 31 does have content are not playing on my PC at the moment via latest VLC or the HDHR app. It stutters and occasionally freezes. Not an issue of power as I have a Ryzen 3950x and RTX 2070 w/32 gig RAM. I'll play around with it more this evening and try a beta player to see if that helps.

CH31 - 5001 16.1 KONG
CH31 - 5002 5.1 KING
CH31 - 5003 13.1 KCPQ
CH31 - 5004 22.1 KZJO

CH24 - 5002 4.1 KOMO
CH24 - 5003 7.1 KIRO

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by kyl416 »

ATSC 3.0 signals can broadcast multiple PLPs. Try different combinations with the PLP checkboxes to see if others show up. (i.e. 0, 1, 2 only, 0+1, 0+2, 1+2, or all 3 checked)

VLC's latest test build will likely not improve anything as there's still no open source AC-4 codec and FFmpeg's HEVC decoder doesn't support interlaced HEVC. But it might address some Ryzen specific issues with hardware accelleration.

For the HDHomeRun app itself, make sure you're using the version from the Windows Store since Microsoft has some of their codecs locked down to only work with Windows Store apps. If you are, you might want to open a support ticket so they can get diagnostic data and possibly collect a sample capture of the station's stream from you to see if it's a bug, a Ryzen specific issue, or some quirk with how the Seattle stations configured their ATSC 3.0 signals that they can address in a future firmware update.

EDIT: They just released an update to the Windows 10 app to address some audio/video issues, so you might want to check for an update from the Windows App store in the next few days to see if that fixes your issue.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by CBme »

" Try different combinations with the PLP checkboxes to see if others show up." Not sure what you mean by this as for scanning, I'm using the HDHomeRun Setup app and you're only option there is which tuner to select.

I am using the Windows Store App for the player. I tried it again and it was playing fine but changing the channels caused it to start to stutter on the playback again. I am getting audio and interestingly the 24 channels show up there and play but they still won't from the HDHomeRun Config GUI. Opens VLC but gives no network rate. I believe KING (NBC) and KIRO (CBS) here are broadcasting at 1080p, not interlaced form the VLC info but not 100% sure as it doesn't expressly say.

I'm also unaware of any Ryzen CPU (not APU) bug that affects playback especially as the separate video card should be doing any hardware accelerated video. Do you have a link to where you read this?

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by kyl416 »

In the latest version of the hdhomerun_config_gui you should see some PLP options appear when you switch it to RF 24 or RF 31, you can find more details about how those options work in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=133&t=74215

Yeah, Ryzen CPU shouldn't have issues, I was thinking of the APU where there's currently some issues in other software.

In another thread someone mentioned seeing KIRO's ATSC 3.0 feed show up as squished 1920x540p, which is what happens with decoders that don't support interlaced HEVC.

CBme
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by CBme »

"In the latest version of the hdhomerun_config_gui you should see some PLP options appear when you switch it to RF 24 or RF 31, you can find more details about how those options work in this thread:"
Ah, yes, I thought your comment had to do with scanning for channels, not viewing in from the Config GUI/VLC. Thank you, selecting those PLP's did allow the RF 24 channels to work in VLC (with the working then stuttering or freezing as the others).
And I am seeing KIRO/CBS being the extra wide image indicating it is interlaced, unlike KING/NBC. KIRO's VLC Codec data says 1920x540 while KING says 1920x1080.
Really hope KIRO changes what it is doing sooner than later.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by kyl416 »

Interlaced HEVC is part of the ATSC 3.0 specs and NextGen compliant TVs should have no problem properly displaying it. The problem is with open source software like VLC who relies on FFmpeg for HEVC decoding and doesn't support interlaced HEVC, so it just displays one of the 1080i fields as a 1920x540p stream.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by Trip »

Okay, so is anyone seeing an ATSC 3.0 transmission for KUNS? There should be one.

- Trip

CBme
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by CBme »

kyl416 wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:54 pm Interlaced HEVC is part of the ATSC 3.0 specs and NextGen compliant TVs should have no problem properly displaying it. The problem is with open source software like VLC who relies on FFmpeg for HEVC decoding and doesn't support interlaced HEVC, so it just displays one of the 1080i fields as a 1920x540p stream.
It's a problem for really anything that isn't officially supporting it. In my case it is going to be most of our Plex targets. Interlaced is already not-so-great in with the mpeg 2 content.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by CBme »

Trip wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:17 pm Okay, so is anyone seeing an ATSC 3.0 transmission for KUNS? There should be one.
- Trip
From my comment above: Strangely my Setup Scan doesn't show KUNS on 5005 but it is showing in the Config GUI.

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Re: ATSC 3.0: Seattle / Tacoma - Dec 15th launch

Post by kyl416 »

CBme wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:34 pmIt's a problem for really anything that isn't officially supporting it. In my case it is going to be most of our Plex targets.
Plex also relies on FFmpeg for their decoding. If you don't have one already, sign up for an account at FFmpeg's bug tracker and upvote that bug report I linked to. Right now only 2 people have upvoted it even though it's been open for 6+ years. Hopefully now that interlaced HEVC and AC-4 are appearing out in the wild with ATSC 3.0, and more markets are going live, they'll finally address that issue and the AC-4 issue.
Interlaced is already not-so-great in with the mpeg 2 content.
That's an ongoing issue on NVidia's end of things. Their GPU chipsets shipped with a broken hardware MPEG2 decoder, so the only workaround for developers is to fallback to software decoding.

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