ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham - 2020

ATSC 3.0 Forum
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pastafarian10
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Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:54 am

Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by pastafarian10 »

nickk wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:53 pm
pastafarian10 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:51 pm My first SiliconDust Product is the 4K Tuner. The firmware works great, but the rest of the software is so buggy as to be unusable.
What platform and what issues are you seeing with the HDHomeRun app?

You mentioned squished video on 1080i HEVC channels on Windows 10 - this has been fixed and the new Win10 app was released a few days ago. Technically it is a Microsoft issue but we came up with a solution.

Nick
I already opened 3 tech support issues with SiliconDust for the worst problems. Nothing was fixed. I have been abandoned as I no longer get any communications from tech support. At this point, I really have no desire to pursue this further. It's been a huge waste of my time. I have a solution that works. Perhaps others can benefit from what I have learned.

nickk
Silicondust
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by nickk »

pastafarian10 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:04 pm I already opened 3 tech support issues with SiliconDust for the worst problems.
Can you please let me know the ticket numbers - I will check.

Nick

DigitalBrad
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:15 am
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by DigitalBrad »

nickk wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:53 pm
pastafarian10 wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:51 pm My first SiliconDust Product is the 4K Tuner. The firmware works great, but the rest of the software is so buggy as to be unusable.
What platform and what issues are you seeing with the HDHomeRun app?

You mentioned squished video on 1080i HEVC channels on Windows 10 - this has been fixed and the new Win10 app was released a few days ago. Technically it is a Microsoft issue but we came up with a solution.

Nick
CBS 17 (1080i) looks like crap in AppleTV app and in Channels. Also our NBC 5.1 and FOX 50.1 ATSC 3.0 aren't viewable. I have a support ticket in and haven't heard anything. They are viewable in GUI but not on the apps. I tried to report it Channels and they had no clue what I was talking about so I gave up.

nickk
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by nickk »

DigitalBrad wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:10 pm CBS 17 (1080i) looks like crap in AppleTV app and in Channels. Also our NBC 5.1 and FOX 50.1 ATSC 3.0 aren't viewable.
Hi,

AppleTV - make sure you are running the latest (20201227) release of the HDHomeRun app for AppleTV. If there is still a picture quality issue please describe the issue and/or post a screenshot.

NBC/FOX - what specifically are you seeing? (for example is it reporting an error message? black screen with no message, etc).

Nick

DigitalBrad
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:15 am
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by DigitalBrad »

nickk wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:19 pm
DigitalBrad wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:10 pm CBS 17 (1080i) looks like crap in AppleTV app and in Channels. Also our NBC 5.1 and FOX 50.1 ATSC 3.0 aren't viewable.
Hi,

AppleTV - make sure you are running the latest (20201227) release of the HDHomeRun app for AppleTV. If there is still a picture quality issue please describe the issue and/or post a screenshot.

NBC/FOX - what specifically are you seeing? (for example is it reporting an error message? black screen with no message, etc).

Nick
I just updated the AppleTV app. I am running 2 tuners and the app selects the ATSC 1.0 version of the channel. I dont have a way or know how to select priority.

I have an open support request on the other issue. The channel scan does not add the 5.1 or 50.1 HVEC. We can see them using the GUI interface, but they don't come up on the scan. The have an SD version on 5.10 and 50.10 that are ATSC 3.0. WRAL (5.1) was the first station in the country to go live originally and I'm sure you know them.

nickk
Silicondust
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by nickk »

DigitalBrad wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:39 pm I just updated the AppleTV app. I am running 2 tuners and the app selects the ATSC 1.0 version of the channel. I dont have a way or know how to select priority.

I have an open support request on the other issue. The channel scan does not add the 5.1 or 50.1 HVEC. We can see them using the GUI interface, but they don't come up on the scan. The have an SD version on 5.10 and 50.10 that are ATSC 3.0. WRAL (5.1) was the first station in the country to go live originally and I'm sure you know them.
Ok, give us a few days to get this pending release out - that will either fix these channels or from there we can get so test captures and figure it out.

Nick

DigitalBrad
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:15 am
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by DigitalBrad »

nickk wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:04 pm
DigitalBrad wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:39 pm I just updated the AppleTV app. I am running 2 tuners and the app selects the ATSC 1.0 version of the channel. I dont have a way or know how to select priority.

I have an open support request on the other issue. The channel scan does not add the 5.1 or 50.1 HVEC. We can see them using the GUI interface, but they don't come up on the scan. The have an SD version on 5.10 and 50.10 that are ATSC 3.0. WRAL (5.1) was the first station in the country to go live originally and I'm sure you know them.
Ok, give us a few days to get this pending release out - that will either fix these channels or from there we can get so test captures and figure it out.

Nick
Sounds good. Thank you, Nick.

DigitalBrad
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Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:15 am
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by DigitalBrad »

nickk wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:04 pm
DigitalBrad wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:39 pm I just updated the AppleTV app. I am running 2 tuners and the app selects the ATSC 1.0 version of the channel. I dont have a way or know how to select priority.

I have an open support request on the other issue. The channel scan does not add the 5.1 or 50.1 HVEC. We can see them using the GUI interface, but they don't come up on the scan. The have an SD version on 5.10 and 50.10 that are ATSC 3.0. WRAL (5.1) was the first station in the country to go live originally and I'm sure you know them.
Ok, give us a few days to get this pending release out - that will either fix these channels or from there we can get so test captures and figure it out.

Nick
FYI: With AppleTV app update, I can't get my ATSC 3.0 channels to play in the AppleTV app now. I X'ed them out on the 1.0 tuner (ABC / CBS), restarted the Apple TV and they won't tune or even play.

EDIT: its not seeing 5.10 or 50.10 in the menu on ATV app. Those are my only ATSC 3.0 standalone not mapped to an HD counterpart.
Last edited by DigitalBrad on Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

krv
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by krv »

Channel scan does not seem to be working after a change to virtual channels. One of our ATSC 3.0 channels recently changed to new virtual channel numbers numbers, prior to a few days ago our rf 23 channel looked like this:

5.1 WRAL (1080p)
5.12 WRAL (sd)
50.1 WRAZ (720p)
50.2 WRAZ (sd)
34.1 WARZ (720p)
34.2 WARZ (sd)

It now looks like this:

5.11 WRAL (1080p)
5.10 WRAL (sd)
50.11 WRAZ (720p)
50.10 WRAZ (sd)
34.11 WARZ (720p)
34.10 WARZ (sd)

however the channel scan looks like this:

Image

and HDHomeRun Config Gui looks like this:

Image

so channel scan is picking up the SD X.10 stations, but not the HD X.11 stations. any idea what is going on here? we were able to scan the HD stations prior to this change in virtual numbering.

aldamon
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by aldamon »

The Windows 10 app seems to be in good shape now. Sound fixed on HEVC channels so should be good to go in the living room at least for WNCN for NFL Week 17. Still waiting for the new app version to hit our Fire Stick 4Ks but hopefully new version will fix the problems there too. Might force the issue with APK Mirror. Still would like to see HEVC channels split out for every network with 1.0/3.0 overlap like WNCN but understand that's a work in progress.

jasonl
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by jasonl »

https://download.silicondust.com/hdhome ... ndroid.apk always points to the current APK version. No need to use potentially sketchy third-party download sites if you're just looking to sideload.

DigitalBrad
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by DigitalBrad »

nickk wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:04 pm
DigitalBrad wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:39 pm I just updated the AppleTV app. I am running 2 tuners and the app selects the ATSC 1.0 version of the channel. I dont have a way or know how to select priority.

I have an open support request on the other issue. The channel scan does not add the 5.1 or 50.1 HVEC. We can see them using the GUI interface, but they don't come up on the scan. The have an SD version on 5.10 and 50.10 that are ATSC 3.0. WRAL (5.1) was the first station in the country to go live originally and I'm sure you know them.
Ok, give us a few days to get this pending release out - that will either fix these channels or from there we can get so test captures and figure it out.

Nick
Nick,

Just updated to the new firmware and I can now see 150.11 (50.1) and 105.11 (5.1) in my tuner and on the apps, but they still do not tune or work. However, the SD HVEC versions 150.10 (50.1) and 105.10 (5.1) both are viewable like before. I have a very weak signal and am not sure if that it my issue. You should still have access to my logs and my open support ticket.

EDIT: I spoke with WRAL engineer and my issue likely is SNR for the 1080p stuff.
They are very low power at the moment, but should be increasing it a bit in a few weeks.

Virtual Channel 105.10 WRAL*
Frequency 527.000 MHz
Program Number 44
Modulation Lock atsc3
Signal Strength 31%
Signal Quality 80%
Symbol Quality 100%
Streaming Rate 1.253 Mbps

Virtual Channel 150.10 WRAZ*
Frequency 527.000 MHz
Program Number 46
Modulation Lock atsc3
Signal Strength 31%
Signal Quality 79%
Symbol Quality 100%
Streaming Rate 1.169 Mbps

I wonder if they are up converting to 4k. Is anyone doing that yet? I think they have the gear to.
Last edited by DigitalBrad on Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

csdesigns
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by csdesigns »

aldamon wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:44 pm The Windows 10 app seems to be in good shape now. Sound fixed on HEVC channels so should be good to go in the living room at least for WNCN for NFL Week 17. Still waiting for the new app version to hit our Fire Stick 4Ks but hopefully new version will fix the problems there too. Might force the issue with APK Mirror. Still would like to see HEVC channels split out for every network with 1.0/3.0 overlap like WNCN but understand that's a work in progress.
In my instance, the sound on WNCN (via Windows 10 or Xbox One apps) is still being decoded as mono (with the latest fw from today), or at least there is a very large difference in the leveling of the left and right channels (same for all channels on 473MHz). So it's there, but it's awful to listen to. Also, given the really low current picture quality of these HEVC channels, not sure why you'd want to watch something like football on an ATSC 3.0 broadcast atm – unless you didn't have access to another ATSC 1.0-capable tuner prior to today's fw update, which should now alleviate that issue.

Also, speaking of app versions: T̶h̶e̶ ̶l̶a̶t̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶a̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶A̶n̶d̶r̶o̶i̶d̶ ̶T̶V̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶ ̶I̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶t̶a̶l̶l̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶2̶0̶1̶5̶ ̶S̶h̶i̶e̶l̶d̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶l̶o̶n̶g̶e̶r̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶w̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶H̶E̶V̶C̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶n̶e̶l̶s̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶i̶n̶s̶t̶a̶l̶l̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶2̶0̶2̶1̶0̶1̶0̶4̶ ̶/̶ ̶2̶0̶2̶0̶1̶2̶3̶0̶e̶ ̶U̶I̶. After a reinstall of the 20210104, HEVC channels are showing again, however, still no audio being decoded.
Last edited by csdesigns on Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DigitalBrad
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:15 am
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by DigitalBrad »

csdesigns wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:55 am
aldamon wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:44 pm The Windows 10 app seems to be in good shape now. Sound fixed on HEVC channels so should be good to go in the living room at least for WNCN for NFL Week 17. Still waiting for the new app version to hit our Fire Stick 4Ks but hopefully new version will fix the problems there too. Might force the issue with APK Mirror. Still would like to see HEVC channels split out for every network with 1.0/3.0 overlap like WNCN but understand that's a work in progress.
In my instance, the sound on WNCN (via Windows 10 or Xbox One apps) is still being decoded as mono (with the latest fw from today), or at least there is a very large difference in the leveling of the left and right channels (same for all channels on 473MHz). So it's there, but it's awful to listen to. Also, given the really low current picture quality of these HEVC channels, not sure why you'd want to watch something like football on an ATSC 3.0 broadcast atm – unless you didn't have access to another ATSC 1.0-capable tuner prior to today's fw update, which should now alleviate that issue.

Also, speaking of app versions: The latest beta of the Android TV app I just installed on my 2015 Shield is no longer showing the HEVC channels at all. The app version installed is 20210104 / 20201230e UI. Previous version did not have this issue.
I am looking to WRAL / WRAZ for sports. Try emailing the CBS engineer about the audio issue. He finally responded to me.

csdesigns
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Raleigh/Durham

Post by csdesigns »

DigitalBrad wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:17 pm I am looking to WRAL / WRAZ for sports. Try emailing the CBS engineer about the audio issue. He finally responded to me.
What is it specifically are you looking into? Is it just the bit rates? Unfortunately, none of the ATSC 3.0 channels in our area are broadcasting HEVC encodings at a comparable PQ-level to their ATSC 1.0 counterparts (except maybe WUVC at times – but that's only because of what the guys in Miami are doing by trying to cram so much into the ATSC 1.0 bandwidth). I know we're still pretty much just in the 'technical preview' phase with ATSC 3.0, and my work with other broadcasters in this arena in other markets has shown very similar results, but from my personal non-job-related and average-consumer perspective, PQ has been at best been an afterthought – and at worst, a joke.

Regarding the audio, my assumption is that this is a SiliconDust issue and how their app is decoding (I haven't had the time to really focus on audio decoding with other apps like Channels yet). If that is not believed to be the case, then it may indeed be worth following up on at some point in the near future.

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