ATSC 3.0: Denver - 2020

ATSC 3.0 Forum
Williams
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by Williams »

NextGenVideo wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:58 pm I checked today and I see 4 HD ATSC 3.0 in channel 34.

I have updated my channel line-up. Fox KDVR is showing as 31.1, which is the same virtual channel as the still existing 8VSB channel on 36. As there are 2 31.1, the line-up only shows the new KDVR and not the existing KDVR-HD. Video works fine. The problem I have is with some of my equipment is that audio is not playing. When I stream to VLC (I know VLC does not support AC-4), but I do not see an audio PID.

Is there a way the channel line-up can be forced to show two channels with the same virtual channel number, so I can tune to KDVR-HD?

Thanks in advance.
Yes, I am doing the same thing by using an EXTEND to see the ATSC 1 simulcasts and disabling the ATSC 3 channels on the CONNECT 4K.

I think opening up the full list of channels scanned would be helpful not only for the ATSC 3 audio issue on the 4K boxbut for all models. One example is channel 7.1 uses the same virtual number for its UHF and VHF transmissions. The VHF signal actually has better readings but for some reason the tuner likes the UHF signal. That broadcast used to be 2.0 audio as well. As of yesterday, it's now 5.1 so I'm no longer losing better audio, but if I just had the ability to see all the channels in a flat list (like when it's scanning) I could just select my preference.

Hopefully you have another means to tune to the ATSC 1 broadcasts until the new feature is rolled out.

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

@Williams,
Have you been successful in forcing the system to use the ATSC 1 channels by disabling the ATSC 3 channels in the 4K channel lineup UI?
I tried this earlier today and it seemed to ignore it. The connect (2) and Quatro had the ATSC 1 channels enabled and made favorites.
The system still insisted in using the 4K and HEVC for anything that has both HD and HEVC virtual channels available. The only thing I have found so far that works is to pull the power from the 4K.
This fixes the problem, but is not real convenient.

Williams
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by Williams »

ppasteur wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:18 pm @Williams,
Have you been successful in forcing the system to use the ATSC 1 channels by disabling the ATSC 3 channels in the 4K channel lineup UI?
I tried this earlier today and it seemed to ignore it. The connect (2) and Quatro had the ATSC 1 channels enabled and made favorites.
The system still insisted in using the 4K and HEVC for anything that has both HD and HEVC virtual channels available. The only thing I have found so far that works is to pull the power from the 4K.
This fixes the problem, but is not real convenient.
Yeah, unplugging the device so it doesn't tune isn't the best option LOL. :)

Since everyone's setup is probably a bit different, here's what's working for me at this time.

I am using Kodi and the unofficial HDHomeRun PVR on a Mac mini hooked up to an AVR > TV. I also have a SiliconDust Record subscription to take advantage of the Kodi DVR functionality.

Yesterday, I rescanned to pick up the new channels on the 4K and unplugged the Extend while I tested various software to see what worked (well, ... what DIDN'T work)

I noticed that after I plugged the Extend back in the PVR in Kodi still wanted to tune into the ATSC 3 broadcasts. To get Kodi back to preferring the Extend, I did a channel scan again on both models, restarted both of them, then I restarted the Record engine. That seemed to update the line up on the Record engine so it selects the Extend every time (so far).

So far, the HDHR record engine is calling the Extend's ATSC 1 channels (by way of the Kodi PVR) as a priority. Note I do think this is more to do with the Extend having a lower device ID then honoring the channel line up settings.

I am interested in seeing what happens if I use up the two tuners on the Extend then try and tune into one of the affected channels. Will it stream the ATSC 3 channel even though it's X'd out, or will I get an error such as tuner not available?

Anyway, short answer might be to rescan then reboot your two devices and perhaps run the record engine on your network so your software calls to it as a priority.

Hope this helps.

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

Williams wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:13 pm
Yeah, unplugging the device so it doesn't tune isn't the best option LOL. :)

Since everyone's setup is probably a bit different, here's what's working for me at this time.

I am using Kodi and the unofficial HDHomeRun PVR on a Mac mini hooked up to an AVR > TV. I also have a SiliconDust Record subscription to take advantage of the Kodi DVR functionality using SD's backend recording service.

Yesterday, I rescanned to pick up the new channels on the 4K and unplugged the Extend while I tested various software to see what worked (well, ... what DIDN'T work)

I noticed that after I plugged the Extend back in the PVR in Kodi still wanted to tune into the ATSC 3 broadcasts. To get Kodi back to preferring the Extend, I did a channel scan again on both models, restarted both of them, then I restarted the Record engine. That seemed to update the line up on the Record engine so it selects the Extend every time (so far).

One thing to note is the unofficial Kodi HDHR PVR talks to and streams directly from the record engine by default. The record engine calls on the tuner, not Kodi directly. There are also advanced features in the Kodi PVR like channel groups and the ability to disable, show duplicates on each tuner device, etc. but I don't use any of them.

So far, the HDHR record engine is calling the Extend's ATSC 1 channels (by way of the Kodi PVR) as a priority. Note I do think this is more to do with the Extend having a lower device ID then honoring the channel line up settings.

I am interested in seeing what happens if I use up the two tuners on the Extend then try and tune into one of the affected channels. Will it stream the ATSC 3 channel even though it's X'd out, or will I get an error such as a tuner not available?

Anyway, short answer might be to rescan then reboot your two devices and perhaps run the record engine on your network so your software calls to it as a priority.

Hope this helps.
As you said, many differences in systems. I use Plex, channels (ATV4K) and the android live TV app. Primarily I use the HDHR client on Android TV,(Shield Pro 2019 and 2017), FireTV, Roku, Win 10, Fire tablet).
I have HDHR record setup on three machines. The two Shield boxes and a Synology NAS. All on the LAN.
I have not messed with Plex because of the known lack of audio support. So, using the HDHR app on the various platforms it does not give me the ability to select tuners. Nor does it respect the fact that I have enabled or disabled channels on the various tuners. I have rescanned, disabled channels in the UI, rebooted the 3 HDHR tuner boxes. Nothing I have come up with keeps the clients from connecting the the 4K for HEVC channels... other than pulling power from the 4K box.

I sure do appreciate your account of what is working for you. Hopefully it helps others. I will keep playing and let everyone know if I come up with something that works here.

Thanks again,
Phil

Williams
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by Williams »

As you said, many differences in systems. I use Plex, channels (ATV4K) and the android live TV app. Primarily I use the HDHR client on Android TV,(Shield Pro 2019 and 2017), FireTV, Roku, Win 10, Fire tablet).
I have HDHR record setup on three machines. The two Shield boxes and a Synology NAS. All on the LAN.
I have not messed with Plex because of the known lack of audio support. So, using the HDHR app on the various platforms it does not give me the ability to select tuners. Nor does it respect the fact that I have enabled or disabled channels on the various tuners. I have rescanned, disabled channels in the UI, rebooted the 3 HDHR tuner boxes. Nothing I have come up with keeps the clients from connecting the the 4K for HEVC channels... other than pulling power from the 4K box.

I sure do appreciate your account of what is working for you. Hopefully it helps others. I will keep playing and let everyone know if I come up with something that works here.

Thanks again,
Phil
I wonder if uninstalling / reinstalling the misbehaving apps might help reset things?

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

I have tried that for a couple of devices. It made no difference. Maybe clearing the entire system and staring from scratch... Maybe but a royal PIA.
In the best world, there is a quick way to set tuner affinity from the client.
For now, pulling power from the 4K does the trick. AND, less of a PIA than the above solution.

THX again.

signcarver
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by signcarver »

Typically SD's software will use the device with lowest DeviceID first so yes disabling the channel on the 4K should work on its own (and any channel disabled on a device "can't " be used by SD's apps) or may not even need to be disabled.

If you have SD's DVR engine available to clients it can take up to 2 hours for changing the status of any channel to reflect in what the dvr will use to tune so it is best to restart it after a scan or enabling, favorite, or disabling a channel.

Without the DVR engine, at the very least a client would need to be restarted to properly pick up the change. Occasionally a request for the lineup.json may be cached by the device so you may find you need to restart the device and/or clear the cache (which isn't always just the app's cache)

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

signcarver wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:09 pm Typically SD's software will use the device with lowest DeviceID first so yes disabling the channel on the 4K should work on its own (and any channel disabled on a device "can't " be used by SD's apps) or may not even need to be disabled.

If you have SD's DVR engine available to clients it can take up to 2 hours for changing the status of any channel to reflect in what the dvr will use to tune so it is best to restart it after a scan or enabling, favorite, or disabling a channel.

Without the DVR engine, at the very least a client would need to be restarted to properly pick up the change. Occasionally a request for the lineup.json may be cached by the device so you may find you need to restart the device and/or clear the cache (which isn't always just the app's cache)
Good information. Thank you.
I tried again this morning, right after reading your note. The clients are using other tuners to get the ATSC 1 channels rather than the 4K for ATSC 3. I was not aware that it could take so long for the channel lock out to become effective. So this will work for me, but it is not real convenient for getting in and checking the ATSC channels occasionally.

I know that I have said it before (as have many others) it sure would make my life less complicated (especially until the whole ATSC3 thing gets sorted out) to be able to tell the client which tuner to use for a given program.

Thanks again. I do appreciate the info.

ElHawkman
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Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ElHawkman »

I don't think this is new but I've had audio problems with the 3.0 signals on both iOS and Amazon Fire OS. And, as stated, the 3.0 signal trumps the 1.0, always. Somehow, the 3.0 signal is less stable on RF34 as a 3.0 signal than the 1.0 was on RF34. I'm definitely not mad about any of this, as i know this technology is very new. Just trying to pitch in my experiences to help solve things. My setup is literally the new 3.0 Quattro and a network. Nothing complicated. I'm willing to test out anything if needed.

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

I have disabled the ATSC 3 channels on the 4K. They are unusable on all devices that I have access to. This includes Win 10, Shield, ATV4K, Roku and Fiertv/Tablet.
It seems this thread isn't getting much attention. So, I have no clue whether it it the tuner/software from HDHR, or if it it on the transmission side. No one has asked for any feedback or help in troubleshooting on the problems in Denver (that I know of).

BTW, as I haven't checked in a few days, is 2.1 sending out any audio at all now?

Phil

the1mick
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by the1mick »

hi,

fwiw its a known issue, not w HDHR but w audio decoding. covered here
viewtopic.php?f=133&t=74323

looks like HDHR is working on a solution to present both ATSC1 and ATSC3 choices in our channel scans. Until then we are stuck w the ATSC3 versions of the channel. which uses AC4 audio, which isn't decoded by, in my case, PLEX. and PLEX is simply using ffmpeg so ffmpeg is where this needs to get addressed.

until then i look forward to an option to select the channel by the signal type.

HTH

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

The ability to independently select ATSC 3 channels will be welcome.

BTW, I have read the AC4 thread from it's inception. I know of the open source issues. I also know that the problems I and others are having is not really covered there. If a device has support for the Codec, it should work, I believe. I know that most of my devices do. I don't expect PLEX to work until ffmpeg is fixed. So I am not even worrying about that part for now.
I did notice that the change log thread mentioned fixes for the "buffering" issues on a few of the platforms. When I can get those releases I will enable the channels on the 4K and give it another shot.

Rouvycd
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by Rouvycd »

Should I consider myself lucky if I don’t seem to be having issues yet with the 4K tuner and channels dvr and client on Apple TV. I just got started on this setup Monday this week. I was eve able to view on my iPad with the HD home run app as well. Are the 3.0 channels on tuner 2 and 3. Seems like they are what gets used so far. I was able to record ABC CBS FOX last night and picture quality is fine (subjective) for me.

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

I am glad that it is working well for you. Great!
The only system I have not played with yet is the ATV4K. I will have to try to do that. Where is the HDHR record server running in your system?
BTW, from memory, tuner 1 and 2 are the tuners that can do ATSC3. Stations tuned on 3 will be ATSC1.
In my system the ATSC3/HEVC/AC4 stations were always tuned on tuner 1 first, then on 2.

darcilicious
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by darcilicious »

ppasteur wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:55 am BTW, from memory, tuner 1 and 2 are the tuners that can do ATSC3. Stations tuned on 3 will be ATSC1.
In my system the ATSC3/HEVC/AC4 stations were always tuned on tuner 1 first, then on 2.
The tuners are numbered 0-3, so it's actually tuner 0 and 1 that can tune ATSC 3.0; tuners 2 and 3 will ONLY tune ATSC 1.0.

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