ATSC 3.0: Denver - 2020

ATSC 3.0 Forum
bjdraw
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ATSC 3.0: Denver - 2020

Post by bjdraw »

I called and talked to David Stromberg at KDVR. He told me that the Denver stations plan to go live with ATSC 3.0 on December 15th. Initially they will be using the CW tower and all the streams will be simulcast of the ATSC 1.0 channels, so not 4k and HDR (etc). Eventually they will transition from ATSC 1.0 to 3.0 and start to use the higher quality signals, etc.

Williams
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by Williams »

Thanks for the update! and for starting the local thread. I am in Denver and have been trying to lock onto the weak ATSC 3 signal on RF2.

Hoping there's a player that works on my mac mini running OS 10.13 by then.

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

I too am interested.
I can get physical channel 2 on one of my antennas. It even plays pretty well on my LG OLED (audio and video). Nothing of much interest on any of the three sub-channels though. I was happy to be able to get ATSC3 to work.
Was there any mention of whether the local stations would be making any kind of announcement?
Any mention of the specifics of what stations will be participating?
I am curious to see if there will be any increase in quality. I know it will be the same source, but many stations in Denver are pretty bandwidth limited due to all of the sub-channels.
Thanks for starting the thread!!

bjdraw
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by bjdraw »

I wish I would have taken more notes, but I seem to recall him mentioning more than 5 stations. I was left with the impression that all the big stations will be live on the same day. He did mention that every station will be transmitting ~6Mbps at HEVC, so not sure that's enough bit to improve the over the compressed ATSC 1 signals. He also mentioned that they are using a IP over RF via microwave to the location with the towers, so I took this to mean they have lots of flexibility in changing the quality around as they fully roll out ATSC 3.0.

I would be surprised if they make any announcement, other than telling the ATSC 1.0 viewers to rescan to continue to watch The CW (the existing CW channel is going to be used to broadcast all the other channels in ATSC 3.0). It seems this is just the first of many steps towards what we are all looking forward to, but right now they realize the audience is geeks who will learn everything in forums.

The guy was super nice and told me to call back if I had any more questions. I got in touch with him by calling the main number and asking the receptionist to transfer me to engineering. Initially he didn't answer and his mailbox was full, but he called me right back when he noticed he missed my call.

Gwilly7
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by Gwilly7 »

This is good news, thank you for the info. I am in Littleton and looking forward to testing the new broadcasts.

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

From KyL416 in the AVS Denver OTA Thread:

KWGN and KDVR made their filings:

KWGN's RF 34 signal will convert to ATSC 3.0 on 12/21 and carry nextgen simulcasts of KDVR, KMGH and KUSA in addition to KWGN's primary CW channel.

And for KWGN's ATSC 1.0 simulcasts:
2.1 CW HD will be on KDVR's RF 36 signal
2.2 CourtTV will be on KUSA's RF 9 signal
2.3 Comet will be on KMGH's RF 7 signal
2.4 Charge! will be on KMGH's RF 7 signal

About 3 weeks before I can do some real testing.
I would say "I can't wait" but that is not true... I have to. So I will. :lol:

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

The latest from @nmetro on the AVS Denver OTA thread:
"As updated this morning, Rabbit Ears (RabbitEars.Info) now has the applications for KWGN, KMGH, KUSA, and KDVR in regards to ATSC 3.0 conversion for RF 34. The KWGN application has the details. The KMGH, KUSA and KDVR applications are to indicate that they are affected by the planned ATSC 3.0 conversion for RF34.

All applications indicate they are "Pending". Though, as noted above, two weeks from now or so, RF34 will be broadcasting an ATSC 3.0 signal."

Two weeks and counting....

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

It looks like all of the applications have been approved. January 21st is still the date.
Other than the fact that I will get to play with ATSC 3 I think this will be an overall step backwards from the picture quality perspective.
Reports have been 3 to 3.5 Mb/s for the ATSC 3 channels. On the better stations I am getting 12 to 14 now. That will likely go down on the ATSC 1 broadcasts due to transmitter sharing (all of those sub-channels).

Growing pains, sure. But, for five years...

DenverBrownGuy
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by DenverBrownGuy »

Thank you for the updates @ppasteur. You switched dates on your status update from 12/21 to January 21st. Can you clarify which one you believe it will be? https://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=atsc3 shows 12/21?

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

Sorry about that and no idea how I blew that. It is not even a simple typographical error either.
It is still December 21 2020. Six days from today. Next Monday... As far as I know. Interestingly, I have not seen anything on OTA TV indicating that the change is scheduled.
During the repack, at least, they announced well ahead of time that everyone should do a rescan when changes were being made. I thought that audience notifications are mandated by the FCC. It would also be in the station's own best interest.
We will see, I suppose.

Thanks for checking me on that!

kyl416
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by kyl416 »

KWGN has been running a ticker at various times for the past month, that's how we heard about them becoming the ATSC 3.0 lighthouse before the initial FCC filing was made.

The other stations joining their lighthouse signal like KUSA, KDVR and KMGH aren't required to make a notification since their ATSC 1.0 signals aren't changing frequencies.

ppasteur
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ppasteur »

Thanks for that @Kyle416. I guess I don't watch KWGN much... if at all.
Incidentally, my Quatro 4K has picked up a bunch of 5000 series stations during background channel scans over the last week or so since I last looked. I rescanned a few minutes ago and they are gone.
I wonder if they are doing some testing early?

Phil

ElHawkman
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ElHawkman »

I've also gotten 3 to 4 channels in the 5000s. I thought it was the lo VHF signal on RF 5 and some of it's subchannels but after seeing this thread, I'm guessing it's something ATSC 3.0 related.

signcarver
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by signcarver »

If you are talking about the virtual channel numbers in the 5000 range in the device, those are channels that were detected by the scan that don't have virtual channel numbers defined in the stream. There have been some atsc3 programs numbers in some markets that also are in the 5000 range but that usually isn't what is being referred to.

ElHawkman
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Re: ATSC 3.0: Denver

Post by ElHawkman »

Interesting. They must be actual channels then. Supposedly the go live date on the ATSC 3.0 is Monday, so that was the basis of the assumption.

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