ATSC 3.0: Tampa

Triplesticks · Post by **Triplesticks** » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:05 pm

I called several stations in the Tampa bay area and heard back from Reb Brownlow - Director of Engineering WFTS

1) They (ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS, and MOR(CW)) are all scheduled to go live on December 1st, 2020
2) MOR(CW) will be the "lighthouse" station, which means it will be sending out the signal for everyone
3) MOR(CW) will be broadcasting on physical channel 18

I'm planning on placing my order for a Connect 4K in a few weeks, so I'll be ready for the Dec. 1st Go Live.

Triplesticks · Post by **Triplesticks** » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:54 pm

UPDATE

As promised 5 ATSC 3.0 channels showed up today (see below) on physical channel 18. I am able to tune and watch all 5 channels, including audio, using the HDHomeRun app from the Windows Store (20201029/1.1.301.0) on my Windows 10 PC. I have some occasional audio stuttering and video errors, but nothing too bad. I did have to manually download the update from the Windows Store to get the latest version of the app.

I haven't been able to get any of my Apple devices to work successfully on the ATSC 3.0 channels. They all work fine on the ATSC 1.0 channels:

iPhone SE 2020: IOS 14.1 and Apple Store app 20201117 (frozen image and no sound)

iPad 2020: IOS 14.2 and Apple Store app 20201117 (frozen image and no sound)

AppleTV 2020: tvOS 14.2 and Apple TV Store app 20201119 (video plays but jumps between all green and normal video. No sound)

All the content is regular HD (1080p/30 or 720p/30). I sent an email to Mr. Brownlow asking about their plans for 4K content.

kyl416 · Post by **kyl416** » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:01 pm

There won't be enough bandwidth for 4K OTA content from the networks until they go to their own standalone ATSC 3.0 signals instead of a shared lighthouse signal. That won't happen until the mandatory 5 year ATSC 1.0 simulcast period is over and the stations decide that tuner penetration is high enough that they can safely convert their remaining ATSC 1.0 signals without losing a significant portion of their OTA audience. However with no mandate that manufacturers include ATSC 3.0 tuners or any plans to distribute coupons for free converters, the chances of them reaching that threshold within 5 years is slim.

Triplesticks · Post by **Triplesticks** » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:23 pm

I got a response from Mr. Brownlow and he confirmed some of what you posted. They don't have enough bandwidth in the lighthouse configuration to broadcast 4K and they won't until they "abandon ATSC 1.0 and start broadcasting 3.0 at each of our own towers." I'll follow-up with him to see if they have any idea how long they plan to test before moving to their own towers. Hopefully, it won't be 5 years or more. What you're saying regarding being market driven makes sense. We'll see how many TVs include ATSC 3.0 tuners at CES 2021 in January. Some of the high-end models got them this year and hopefully more models will get them next year. Having to potentially wait 5 years is depressing.

kyl416 · Post by **kyl416** » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:33 pm

The minimum 5 year ATSC 1.0 simulcast isn't market driven, it's a FCC requirement. In order for a station to convert to ATSC 3.0 all of their existing channels have to be made available in ATSC 1.0 on other signals in the market with a similar coverage area for at least 5 years so no one loses access to existing programming. The big problem is the damage has already been done via the repack, so there isn't enough room like there was for the DTV transition where stations had a transitional digital signal in addition to their existing analog signal, so we're stuck with a lighthouse style transition.

Now what happens after that 5 years will very much be market driven, like stations could choose to opt out of the lighthouse which would free up bandwidth. The new makeup of the FCC and congress could also end up taking a more proactive approach to ATSC 3.0 and make tuners mandatory in all TVs sold in the USA, crackdown on certain manufacturers who sold TVs with disabled ATSC 3.0 tuners and reneged on their promise to enable them via a firmware update, and introduce a converter coupon program to speed the conversion process along like what happened with the 2009 transition.

jasonl · Post by **jasonl** » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:28 pm

The whole point of the original digital transition was to sell 52-69 to the cell phone companies and give the government more money to spend. The ATSC tuner requirement happened as a way to facilitate that. The funding for the coupon program came out of the revenues from the selloff, and it was structured in such a way as to take as little of the revenue as possible. There's no incentive for the government to do anything for ATSC 3 since they don't stand to benefit from it, and there sure as hell isn't going to be a converter coupon program with no outside money to pay for it.

Triplesticks · Post by **Triplesticks** » Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:59 pm

Just downloaded the 20201204 update for IOS and AppleTV and here are the results:

iPad -> The video works, but no audio. None of the DVR recordings work. Player shows they are playing, but no audio and video only shows an initial image.

iPhone -> the video and audio works for ALL channels. None of the DVR recordings work. Player shows they are playing and audio works for about 10 seconds. Video only shows an initial image.

tvOS - the video and audio works for all channels EXCEPT WMOR(32.1) . None of the DVR recordings work (video or audio). Still getting blocky green playback.

Overall, it takes quite a bit of time to switch between channels but it is an improvement. And still waiting on functionality to choose whether to view the ATSC 1.0 vs 3.0 tuner/channel.

shfy70 · Post by **shfy70** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:05 pm

Quote: "There won't be enough bandwidth for 4K OTA content from the networks until they go to their own standalone ATSC 3.0 signals instead of a shared lighthouse signal. "

Does this mean we won't have real 4K broadcast for another 5 years? I bought this solely for the 4K broadcast, even the local news in 4K is fine (understanbly big 4 commercial network will stick with 1080/60i + 720/60p for a while

bgrubb1 · Post by **bgrubb1** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:48 pm

tripplesticks
glad you mentioned the green blocky playback on TVOS
I have mentioned that issue multiple times and not received a response, so thought it was just me

jasonl · Post by **jasonl** » Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:06 pm

shfy70 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:05 pm Does this mean we won't have real 4K broadcast for another 5 years? I bought this solely for the 4K broadcast, even the local news in 4K is fine (understanbly big 4 commercial network will stick with 1080/60i + 720/60p for a while

It means no one knows if or when we'll ever have 4K available via broadcast TV. It's entirely possible that broadcasters decide it's a better use of their available bandwidth to carry their main network in 1080p and 5 subchannels in 720p rather than a single 4K broadcast, and I can't say I'd blame them if they did that. I know it would improve my chances of actually watching the subchannels if they were in decent quality HD. Upgrading a station to do 4K news is likely to reach into 7 figures.

Branden · Post by **Branden** » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:54 am

Triplesticks · Post by **Triplesticks** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:49 pm

Branden wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:54 am In the Tampa area, these 5 streams work if tuned directly to get the ATSC1/MPEG/AC3 (working audio for legacy devices) streams from any of the four tuners:

| 08.1 | WFLA (NBC) | http://192.168.x.x:5004/auto/ch189000000-3 |
| 10.1 | WTSP (CBS) | http://192.168.x.x:5004/auto/ch195000000-1 |
| 13.1 | WTVT (FOX) | http://192.168.x.x:5004/auto/ch207000000-3 |
| 28.1 | WFTS (ABC) | http://192.168.x.x:5004/auto/ch491000000-3 |
| 32.1 | WMOR (CW) | http://192.168.x.x:5004/auto/ch491000000-7 |

Thanks, this worked great for me in VLC. It was interesting to notice that the signal strength for the ATSC1 channels aren't as strong on my tuner as the ATSC3 channels. However, I was able to get all 4 running at the same time which I can't do (obviously) from the app. In the app, once the two ATSC3 tuners are in use it tells me I'm out of tuners even if I'm trying to tune an ATSC1 channel.

signcarver · Post by **signcarver** » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:32 pm

Surprised you bothered with frequency rather than physical channel number, though many have other issues in the way their mind works that program number isn't always the virtual subchannel (i.e. here 10.1 would be tuned by ch10-3 and 10.3 would be ch10-4 rather than ch195000000-3 and ch195000000-4) so perhaps by using frequency some would be less likely to make such mistakes.

mort · Post by **mort** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:57 pm

Have you guys tried setting up in a vehicle and driving around? I have heard 3.0 unlike 1.0 will be able to keep a signal lock while in motion thus making free in motion TV a possibility again.

KE3JU · Post by **KE3JU** » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:34 am

I just ordered my 4K Connect. I'm in Seminole, looking forward to trying this stuff out. Been using the Duo Connect for a few years now.

Cheers,
Ed

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