AC-4 Audio?

ATSC 3.0 Forum
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NedS
Silicondust
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by NedS »

boardrashx wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:00 pm What a cluster. This product needs to be labeled as a dev kit, not a consumer-ready device.
We have something better than a label. We have an entire section called "Risks and challenges":
The new HDHomeRun QUATRO 4K hardware has completed production qualification. We are working closely with component vendors as the production schedule is dependent on components being delivered on time.

ATSC 3.0 broadcasters are themselves testing. When a test broadcast first starts in your area it will likely not be intended for consumers to watch TV. During testing expect to see channels work one day then disappear the next. We have seen codecs change day to day, DRM protection turn on and off, fake emergency alerts, malformed XML data, etc. This is part of the fun - you get to see what broadcasters are testing.

ATSC 3.0 is a large complicated spec with many features and modes of operation without test cases. As broadcast-equipment vendors and broadcasters test new features it will likely require software and/or firmware work to ensure correct operation. This is an industry wide problem - we are confident we can stay on top of it via firmware and software updates. Our goal is to hide the protocol complications and provide a simple video stream out so apps don't need to deal with it.

We intend to support streaming up to four ATSC 3.0 sub-channels from the two ATSC 3.0 tuners. This is not yet supported - today each sub-channel requires a dedicated tuner.

Not all playback clients will be able to support ATSC 3.0 content due to new codecs being utilized. You may need to purchase new client/playback hardware. For a computer you might need to purchase a new graphics card. Windows may require a paid Microsoft codec to be purchased from Microsoft Store.

Not all playback clients will be able to play broadcast format 4K content even if the playback client is advertised as 4K or plays Netflix in 4K. You may need to purchase new client/playback hardware. For a computer you might need to purchase a new graphics card.

Even if you do purchase specific a playback device or graphics card recommended by Silicondust there is still the possibility that some channels will not render video correctly. We have seen a 4K broadcast on cable, for example, that failed to map the color space correctly on Windows 10. If something fails to render video correctly due to a codec issue we will do our best to reach out to the relevant OS or device vendor with a test case.

ATSC 3.0 allows for interlaced HEVC content. We haven't seen interlaced HEVC content and do not know what devices or operation systems (if any) support interlaced HEVC content.

ATSC 3.0 broadcast channels can be DRM protected and DRM playback is not yet supported. We plan to support DRM playback where possible however it is expected that some client platforms will not be able to support playback of DRM protected channels.

Some popular client platforms such as Roku and Apple TV are not able to support all ATSC 3.0 features.

At launch we are only supporting the USA market and only shipping to USA addresses. Korea uses similar ATSC 3.0 technology but has notable protocol differences. If you are in Korea we are keen to get data captures however we can't guarantee support.
Did we miss anything in there?

boardrashx
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by boardrashx »

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nickk
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by nickk »

boardrashx wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:28 pm
nickk wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:07 pm Most Windows 10 devices will play audio.
XBox One will play audio.
Many Android devices will play audio (requires app release from Dec 8 or later).
AppleTV 4K will play audio.
iPhone 11 and newer will play audio.
We are seeing problems with some channels which we are investigating. One channel here in Phoenix is sending silence.
You need to provide more test-bed details than this, as clearly folks are not having these same experiences.
Our main test systems:
Windows 10 Version 20H2. Needs to be a recent version of Windows 10.
XBox One 16GB flash model.
Nvidia Shield 1st gen connected to Atmos TV via HDMI.
Nvidia Shield 3rd gen (2019).
HiSense 50" TV running Android + Atmos support.
TCL 40" TV running Android.
LG TV (various models from 2017 to 2020).
Apple TV 4K.
iPhone 11.

We are seeing problems with some channels which we are investigating. One channel here in Phoenix is sending silence.

Apple TV 4 does not support ATSC 3.0 audio at this time.
We also have a range of other Android devices we use for testing that do not support ATSC 3.0 audio at this time.

dwaleke
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Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:35 am

Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by dwaleke »

nickk wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:50 am
dwaleke wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:32 pm AppleTV 4k audio is not right. Center channel is coming out of the right channel. Perhaps other channels are wrong too.
Can you please make a short test recording of this channel, upload it to something like Google Drive, then PM me the share link.
dwaleke wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:32 pm What does it take on a Windows 10 device to decode audio with the HDHomeRun Windows app? I get silence on my Windows 10 machine.
Simple thing first - make sure you have the latest Windows 10 release:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/softwar ... /windows10
(click Update now)

Nick
I am unable to send PMs apparently.

Here is the link: REMOVED (EDIT: I was able to send you a PM.)

BTW: My Windows 10 computer is the latest version 20H2 and fully updated. Still no audio from the HDHomeRun app in Windows (v1.1.302.0).

nickk
Silicondust
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by nickk »

dwaleke wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 6:55 pm Here is the link: REMOVED (EDIT: I was able to send you a PM.)
I was able to reproduce the problem playing this recording - thanks. Investigating...

Nick

talkenrain
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by talkenrain »

Something changed with the NVIDIA shield pro thats affected the audio out of the HDHOMERUN app overnight (I think the NVIDIA shield pro it did some non-related update that’s now blocking AC-4 audio decoding).

Yesterday it had audio on ATSC 3.0 channels. With the same release of HDHOMERUN, Today, no audio on any ATSC 3.0 channels.

nickk
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by nickk »

talkenrain wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:57 pm Something changed with the NVIDIA shield pro thats affected the audio out of the HDHOMERUN app overnight (I think the NVIDIA shield pro it did some non-related update that’s now blocking AC-4 audio decoding).

Yesterday it had audio on ATSC 3.0 channels. With the same release of HDHOMERUN, Today, no audio on any ATSC 3.0 channels.
Problem found and fixed - please restart the app.

Nick

hancox
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by hancox »

boardrashx wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:28 pm
nickk wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 5:07 pm Most Windows 10 devices will play audio.
XBox One will play audio.
Many Android devices will play audio (requires app release from Dec 8 or later).
AppleTV 4K will play audio.
iPhone 11 and newer will play audio.

We are seeing problems with some channels which we are investigating. One channel here in Phoenix is sending silence.

Nick
You need to provide more test-bed details than this, as clearly folks are not having these same experiences.
The guys have been asking for your client details for a while now - it can't hurt to answer the question publicly - maybe someone has the same client, and a workaround?

I still don't get the vitriol here. I ended up having to buy multiple client devices with my HD setup due to codecs (roku and samsung being the 2 bad parties) - never thought of it as something at fault with the tuner hardware from Silicondust - it's just sending 1s and 0s on, and that's its job. I anticipate one of my 4K capable clients I've accumulated (FireTV, Roku, AppleTV, the TV itself, XBox) won't play well with something in the ASTC3 chain, but the fault is with codecs and licensing, not SD.

dwaleke
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by dwaleke »

hancox wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:23 am I still don't get the vitriol here. I ended up having to buy multiple client devices with my HD setup due to codecs (roku and samsung being the 2 bad parties) - never thought of it as something at fault with the tuner hardware from Silicondust - it's just sending 1s and 0s on, and that's its job. I anticipate one of my 4K capable clients I've accumulated (FireTV, Roku, AppleTV, the TV itself, XBox) won't play well with something in the ASTC3 chain, but the fault is with codecs and licensing, not SD.
I tend to agree. I can understand there are those out there in my situation and I can see them being upset.

I own Apple TV 4k, 2019 Nvidia Shield Pro, 2019 LG C9 latest firmware/WebOS, Multitude of fully updated Windows 10 devices and not a single one can play back the ATSC 3.0 stream. None. Apple TV 4k gets closest, but wrong channel mapping.

I submitted a sample and SD can reproduce so that's a great start. I am hopeful SD will identify the issues with the streams in Detroit and fix whatever needs fixing (firmware, software, etc).

CBme
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by CBme »

dwaleke wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:14 pm I own Apple TV 4k, 2019 Nvidia Shield Pro, 2019 LG C9 latest firmware/WebOS, Multitude of fully updated Windows 10 devices and not a single one can play back the ATSC 3.0 stream. None. Apple TV 4k gets closest, but wrong channel mapping.
Unless you have a very old graphics card your Windows system should be able to play it fine with the HDHomerun windows store app. Do you have the MSFT HEVC Video Extensions app installed?

dwaleke
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by dwaleke »

CBme wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:00 pm
dwaleke wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:14 pm I own Apple TV 4k, 2019 Nvidia Shield Pro, 2019 LG C9 latest firmware/WebOS, Multitude of fully updated Windows 10 devices and not a single one can play back the ATSC 3.0 stream. None. Apple TV 4k gets closest, but wrong channel mapping.
Unless you have a very old graphics card your Windows system should be able to play it fine with the HDHomerun windows store app. Do you have the MSFT HEVC Video Extensions app installed?
Video plays, but I get no audio. Nickk replied that he confirmed issues with the sample recording I sent him so I am patiently waiting for an update on that. Could be something specific to the broadcasts coming out of Detroit.

NedS
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by NedS »

We basically have four groupings of AC-4 being discussed here:

Known working - Devices that have an AC-4 license and is currently working in the app for most ATSC 3.0 stations (occasionally we have found stations had the configuration wrong on their side, so it's still possible to have issues)

Will work - Devices that have an AC-4 license, but are waiting for dev work or bug fixes (for example, the channel mapping issue)

Won't work internally, but will work with passthrough - Devices that don't have an AC-4 license, but when an external audio device (sound bar, AVR, etc) has an AC-4 license, can produce audio using passthrough

Won't work at all - Devices that don't have an AC-4 license and don't support AC-4 passthrough.

talkenrain
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by talkenrain »

nickk wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:26 am
talkenrain wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:57 pm Something changed with the NVIDIA shield pro thats affected the audio out of the HDHOMERUN app overnight (I think the NVIDIA shield pro it did some non-related update that’s now blocking AC-4 audio decoding).

Yesterday it had audio on ATSC 3.0 channels. With the same release of HDHOMERUN, Today, no audio on any ATSC 3.0 channels.
Problem found and fixed - please restart the app.

Nick
Thanks, Was excited to get home and try but unfortunately It’s still not working. Restarted NVIDIA shield pro, no luck. Uninstalled HDHOMERUN then reinstalled. Still doesn’t work. Audio on ATSC 1 channels are functional but ATSC 3 channels are silent. A little extra data, My AV preamp keeps flickering between 5.1 and not knowing what it's seeing. Also, channel 8.1 KGW (NBC) still crashes the app.

CBme
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by CBme »

talkenrain wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:18 pm
nickk wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:26 am
talkenrain wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:57 pm Something changed with the NVIDIA shield pro thats affected the audio out of the HDHOMERUN app overnight (I think the NVIDIA shield pro it did some non-related update that’s now blocking AC-4 audio decoding).

Yesterday it had audio on ATSC 3.0 channels. With the same release of HDHOMERUN, Today, no audio on any ATSC 3.0 channels.
Problem found and fixed - please restart the app.

Nick
Thanks, Was excited to get home and try but unfortunately It’s still not working. Restarted NVIDIA shield pro, no luck. Uninstalled HDHOMERUN then reinstalled. Still doesn’t work. Audio on ATSC 1 channels are functional but ATSC 3 channels are silent. A little extra data, My AV preamp keeps flickering between 5.1 and not knowing what it's seeing. Also, channel 8.1 KGW (NBC) still crashes the app.
Same at the moment, no ac4 audio on my shield pro but other channels are fine. Receiver just says stereo for me. App version is 12-15 though, and I uninstalled and reinstalled, so I assume that means the update Nick is referring too isn't on live on the play store yet.
Last edited by CBme on Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

nickk
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Re: AC-4 Audio?

Post by nickk »

CBme wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:05 pm Same at the moment, no ac4 audio on my sheild pro but other channels are fine. Receiver just says stereo for me. App version is 12-15 though, and I uninstalled and reinstalled, so I assume that means the update Nick is referring too isn't on live on the play store yet.
For audio to work you need a 2019+ (3rd generation) Shield or for older models you need to connect to a receiver or TV that supports Atmos via HDMI.

Nick

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