Dallas ATSC 3.0?

ATSC 3.0 Forum
waltzwirko
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Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by waltzwirko »

The Dallas-area ATSC 3.0 stations disappeared from my lineup more than a week ago after a rescan.

They're still MIA.

Checked the forum and didn't see anyone else having the same issue; is it just me?

Let us know if you have any inside info, and thanks!

Jedi71
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by Jedi71 »

FOX 104.1 still shows in my guide (I've blocked Univision so I don't know if they are still there or not.)

I can't view 104.1 on my 2019 Shield Tube, it says Unable to Play Channel: No Video Data.

kyl416
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by kyl416 »

The Dallas area live bandscans on RabbitEars show a strong signal on RF 34, but since none of the Dallas bandscans use a 4K model it doesn't decode anything.

If you have a Windows computer try using the hdhomerun_config_gui tool which is found in the Program Files\Siliconust\HDHomeRun folder after you install the latest software for Windows to see if it detects anything on RF 34.

jasonl
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by jasonl »

The station is on-air and broadcasting *something*, but the HDHomeRun isn't seeing any channel data. I sent some captures to Nick to take a look at.

jasonl
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by jasonl »

It looks like the station isn't broadcasting LLS data, which is the ATSC 3 equivalent of PSIP data in ATSC 1. I sent an email to my contact at the station.

jaraco@jaraco.com
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by jaraco@jaraco.com »

This issue is affecting us as well. No access to channel 4 since sometime on Thurs May 6. At first, signal was highly pixelated, and after running channel scan, the channels no longer appear. Used firmware from February and upgraded to 20210501beta1 but that didn't help.

nickk
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by nickk »

This isn't firmware related - there is a problem with the broadcast.

Nick

waltzwirko
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by waltzwirko »

Thanks to everyone for your input! :) Very helpful. I switched to a Mac mini since getting my ATSC 3.0 box, so I can no longer access the Windows diagnostic tools.

jaraco@jaraco.com
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by jaraco@jaraco.com »

Rescanned today and the channel is back. Whatever the issue was seems to have been solved station-side.

xmguy
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by xmguy »

kyl416 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:38 pm The Dallas area live bandscans on RabbitEars show a strong signal on RF 34, but since none of the Dallas bandscans use a 4K model it doesn't decode anything.

If you have a Windows computer try using the hdhomerun_config_gui tool which is found in the Program Files\Siliconust\HDHomeRun folder after you install the latest software for Windows to see if it detects anything on RF 34.
Even if no one on the Band Scans has a 4K SD HR the signal levels are usually different and will atleast "show up" in the Signal Strength area of the Tech program. I can use my HR3 and it will see a noticeable difference in an ATSC 3.0 signal vs a 1.0. This is because it still "sees" the 3.0 signal. It just can't decode anything from it. ATSC 3.0 signals are hotter than 1.0 counterparts.

signcarver
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by signcarver »

As far as seeing something there, that was already stated in what you quoted... what was being looked for is the channel list which wasn't being detected because of the lack of lls and that wouldn't be determined if not using a "4k" The reason for suggesting using config_gui (with a 4k) was to see if it showed atsc3 and plp info and see if it provided such list as often things can show up there that aren't added as channels to the scan.

You cannot correctly state that atsc 3.0 would be hotter... in many cases that is the opposite.
xmguy wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 6:28 pm
kyl416 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:38 pm The Dallas area live bandscans on RabbitEars show a strong signal on RF 34, but since none of the Dallas bandscans use a 4K model it doesn't decode anything.

If you have a Windows computer try using the hdhomerun_config_gui tool which is found in the Program Files\Siliconust\HDHomeRun folder after you install the latest software for Windows to see if it detects anything on RF 34.
Even if no one on the Band Scans has a 4K SD HR the signal levels are usually different and will atleast "show up" in the Signal Strength area of the Tech program. I can use my HR3 and it will see a noticeable difference in an ATSC 3.0 signal vs a 1.0. This is because it still "sees" the 3.0 signal. It just can't decode anything from it. ATSC 3.0 signals are hotter than 1.0 counterparts.

xmguy
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by xmguy »

signcarver wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 6:56 pm As far as seeing something there, that was already stated in what you quoted... what was being looked for is the channel list which wasn't being detected because of the lack of lls and that wouldn't be determined if not using a "4k" The reason for suggesting using config_gui (with a 4k) was to see if it showed atsc3 and plp info and see if it provided such list as often things can show up there that aren't added as channels to the scan.

You cannot correctly state that atsc 3.0 would be hotter... in many cases that is the opposite.
xmguy wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 6:28 pm
kyl416 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:38 pm The Dallas area live bandscans on RabbitEars show a strong signal on RF 34, but since none of the Dallas bandscans use a 4K model it doesn't decode anything.

If you have a Windows computer try using the hdhomerun_config_gui tool which is found in the Program Files\Siliconust\HDHomeRun folder after you install the latest software for Windows to see if it detects anything on RF 34.
Even if no one on the Band Scans has a 4K SD HR the signal levels are usually different and will atleast "show up" in the Signal Strength area of the Tech program. I can use my HR3 and it will see a noticeable difference in an ATSC 3.0 signal vs a 1.0. This is because it still "sees" the 3.0 signal. It just can't decode anything from it. ATSC 3.0 signals are hotter than 1.0 counterparts.
I can use my HR3 and watch the Signal Strength. It's stronger on 3.0, than it's adjacent 1.0 signals. It's just the way it's transmitted, vs 1.0.

Image

^ ATSC 3.0 signal on my HR3 using my CM3020.

Image

^ ATSC 3.0 signal on my HR4K using my CM3020.

Image

^ ATSC 1.0 signal on my HR3 using my CM3020.

signcarver
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by signcarver »

Which says nothing as that only applies at that particular location for those channels you cannot correctly state that atsc3 would be hotter than 1 just because of that one instance. Some places their atsc 3.0 implementation is only good for a few miles away from the tower while the 1.0 signal is good for 40+ miles.

You were also greatly mistaken in what you had said in another thread about being testing period and reason for the lighthouse.

xmguy
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by xmguy »

signcarver wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 8:36 am Which says nothing as that only applies at that particular location for those channels you cannot correctly state that atsc3 would be hotter than 1 just because of that one instance. Some places their atsc 3.0 implementation is only good for a few miles away from the tower while the 1.0 signal is good for 40+ miles.

You were also greatly mistaken in what you had said in another thread about being testing period and reason for the lighthouse.
I can show that ATSC 3.0 signal overall is way stronger/easier to receive than it's 1.0 signals. My HR4K can "see" 3.0 signals with the antenna not even pointing at the towers. It can't lock on. But it CAN see those stations over 1.0. The stations in which you speak of probably are using a lower powered transmitter output vs a similar 1.0 signal in that area. This seems to be common as 3.0 is still in testing phases. They would rather test 3.0 on lower powered stations than use their full powered stations. But that doesn't apply everywhere.

I am dead accurate on what I've said for testing periods and the reason for lighthousing as I've read ATSC 3.0 technical documents, and various related data on the topics. So there.

signcarver
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Re: Dallas ATSC 3.0?

Post by signcarver »

AGAIN THAT IS ONLY FOR YOUR SITUATION there are countless areas that the opposite is true.

Here in phoenix the atsc 3.0 host stations are 35 and 61 (physical 27). For me 35 comes in at -58dBm and 27 comes in at -16dBm (because I am 5 miles from one of the towers broadcasting on physical 27). As a result comparing the hotness of the signal would be entirely moot if I try to compare 27 to what is broadcasting from a tower 20+ miles away. While 35 is pretty close to the station that hosts it's regular ATSC signal (33) which comes in (for me) at -42dbM (over 100%) compared to the -58dBm (84%) of the ATSC 3.0 signal which will be a more accurate comparison. For a more full disclosure 61 will come in at -38dBm strength on 15 from 20+ miles away. To make a statement that ATSC 3 will be hotter for a thread about Dallas when your situation is in Tennessee is completely irresponsible.


Lighthouse means they are "channel sharing"
your statement was:
xmguy wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 6:31 pm ATSC 3.0 is still in its testing period. Right now stations are doing it more as a show of; "look what we can do". That's why stations are lighthousing, and there are issues. Most markets aren't even online yet.


The reason for the lighthouse is that they must maintain their ATSC 1.0 signal for at least 5 additional years nothing to do with "testing" as such sharing is mandated to maintain service for the vast majority of television sets that are out there. I will admit that when I first viewed it, it came across on my phone was "ATSC 3.0 is still in its testing, PERIOD" (comma and emphasis mine but reading it that way struck a nerve) as though they are doing testing, it is beyond that for many.

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