Why isn’t PVR using EIT PF data to accurately start/stop recordings?

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phit03
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Why isn’t PVR using EIT PF data to accurately start/stop recordings?

Post by phit03 »

Hi,
I've just taken a subscription to the PVR facility and it seems a step backwards in some respects.

I'm used (in the UK and I guess this is the case elsewhere) to physical PVRs that use the “EIT” (“Event Information Table”) that is broadcast along with the broadcast TV signal to notify of unexpected changes to a programs start and stop times.

It appears that the HDHOMERUN PVR doesn't use this and relies on a fixed start and end padding period to cater for this eventuality.

Are there any plans to add this in the future?

jasonl
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Re: Why isn’t PVR using EIT PF data to accurately start/stop recordings?

Post by jasonl »

[removed by moderator]. I'm not aware of any countries other than the UK that actually implement live updates to the EIT data to account for changes in sport and other live programming. Additionally, there's a very good chance that the EIT data and the EPG data from Gracenote will use different names for the same event: if you're talking about a Premier League match, for example, that might be listed as "Football" or "Premier League" or "Premier League Football", and in the years when there's a title sponsor, it might have that name in there (Barclay's Premier League) or might not, so there are all sorts of other variations. Just looking at the US which has 3 major guide data providers, for the Bundesliga Leipzig-Freiburg match today (welcome back, real sports), one guide provider used the name "Bundesliga Soccer" and started at 9:30, one used the name "Bundesliga Soccer" and started at 9:20, and one used the name "German Bundesliga Soccer" and started at 9:20.

rpcameron
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Re: Why isn’t PVR using EIT PF data to accurately start/stop recordings?

Post by rpcameron »

Tvheadend uses EIT data as its primary EPG if it's available and set up. (Tvheadend's HDHomeRun implementation doesn't use virtual channel tuning for OTA broadcasts, and instead tunes based upon broadcast frequency and PID.)

If this is an important feature for you, you might want to look into DVR software from other providers.

phit03
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Re: Why isn’t PVR using EIT PF data to accurately start/stop recordings?

Post by phit03 »

Thanks JasonL for your reply.

My next question, though, is why use the Gracenote database when the EPG is continually broadcast with the rest of the TV data on each multiplex?
This is how, to the best of my knowledge, UK hardware PVRs populate their EPGs.
This provides a more accurate EPG that reflects regional variations rather than using a 3rd party such a Gracenote to provide the EPG.

The use of EIT in the UK is not perfect but the major channel providers are usually quite good at using it to flag program start/end time changes.
I recognise that SiliconDust want a single worldwide PVR offering without the hassle of different versions for different countries, probably the same reason that PLEX don't implement EIT either.

Thanks rpcameron for your reply.
I'll have a look at TVheadend but unfortunately I've just paid $35.00 for a PVR product that is no better than PLEX which I already use. My fault for making the assumption that the HDRHomerun implementation would use EIT as they are the hardware producers.

GetMatt
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Re: Why isn’t PVR using EIT PF data to accurately start/stop recordings?

Post by GetMatt »

phit03 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 4:05 am
My next question, though, is why use the Gracenote database when the EPG is continually broadcast with the rest of the TV data on each multiplex?
This is how, to the best of my knowledge, UK hardware PVRs populate their EPGs.
This provides a more accurate EPG that reflects regional variations rather than using a 3rd party such a Gracenote to provide the EPG.
Because most countries don't send guide data with the broadcast and a 3rd party guide provider is required. I would think there are a lot of complications using different guide sources for each region/country. Gracenote provides a single source of all guide data.

phit03
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Re: Why isn’t PVR using EIT PF data to accurately start/stop recordings?

Post by phit03 »

Yes, I understand that 3rd party EPG providers are the only option in a lot of cases. It's a pity that Gracenote's UK EPG is is pretty poor from my experiences of it, although that was when PLEX was originally using it before dropping it for it's own EPG in the UK.

I've had a quick look at Tvheadend, unfortunately it's *NIX only. I would prefer a Windows implementation but if I find time I'll set up a PC running Ubuntu and try it out or even try an old Raspberry Pi.

jasonl
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Re: Why isn’t PVR using EIT PF data to accurately start/stop recordings?

Post by jasonl »

EIT data in most countries is pretty useless for DVR purposes. It often doesn't include basic things like episode numbers, and in many places doesn't indicate new vs. repeat episodes, doesn't have images for the shows, and at least in North America, most stations only provide 12-24 hours worth of data when it's there at all. You can maybe do some basic functions like recording based on a show name, but it's a pretty weak offering. The UK does a better job of implementing EIT than pretty much anyone else, but Gracenote's data is still better in many respects for a full-featured DVR implementation. Gracenote has separate listings that do a good job of tracking the different BBC and ITV regions, and I spent a lot of hours pestering them to fix minor issues with channels and then cleaning up the SD mappings to the GN listings, which was a fun geography lesson for someone whose knowledge British geography mostly comes from watching the Premier League.

chrisgla
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Re: Why isn’t PVR using EIT PF data to accurately start/stop recordings?

Post by chrisgla »

I”m going though this pain just now.

Bought hdhomerun direct from silicon dust and having looked at the Gracenote data from schedules direct I don’t see any benefit for me- only a few downsides. I might be wrong, but it seems the benefit is about guide pics and extended movie data that’s just not relevant to my use. I know some love it.

I tried NextPVR which doesn’t seem to support OTA- or at least on Qnap where I can’t use bda drivers to access this. Plex DVR seems to have real guide issues just now.
I haven’t tried HDHR dvr as there is no trial. From reports I’ve read it’s not quite there and really unsure if sliceview would work for me on big screen. I find it awkward so far. Call me a Luddite.

I’m not clear if above is saying TVheadend supports EIT with HDHR or what other software supports it?

Thanks!

rpcameron
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Re: Why isn’t PVR using EIT PF data to accurately start/stop recordings?

Post by rpcameron »

chrisgla wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 4:49 pm
I’m not clear if above is saying TVheadend supports EIT with HDHR or what other software supports it?
Yes, as far as I'm aware Tvheadend indeed supports EIT from HDHR tuners.

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