Recording DRM

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jec6613
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:17 pm

Re: Recording DRM

Post by jec6613 »

I've been a HDHomeRun user for quite some time now, using the dual tuner model and Prime almost since inception, and over the last 6-12 months the DRM recording issue is becoming critical.

Currently, I run MCE 8.1 to record shows, and DVR is only working on one set now after the XBox 360 extenders got broken in an RDP security update (my MCE is domain joined). The hardware is effectively state of the art and way overkill for what it does, but here's the gotcha: 8.1 has been in extended support for 2 years now, and every single patch cycle more things get broken. And, over the last year or so, many of those patches have been critical to install for security fixes - from nVidia security patches to 8.1 patches, and the fact of the matter is MCE just isn't tested against the patches anymore, so recording breaks every 2-4 months and I have to dig and fix it. And that's not including the guide data debacle last month.

Yes, I have the skills to sort out what's broken for now, but for how much longer will that be the case? How many other users have already jumped ship from Silicondust products? The app isn't great, but it's at least in a usable position now (even if I'm not happy about being internet-bound), but where is that DRM DVR feature?

I get it, you can't tell me much if anything about timelines and Cable Labs is a pain to deal with, but I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus here saying that this is the feature that I need to keep me from jumping ship (which I don't want to do, it's a pretty big pain), and as soon as it's available if it's in time I will almost immediately purchase a Servio and 6-channel tuner (once that's available, anyway) to take advantage of it. Because as it stands, within the next 6-12 months MCE will finally be unsustainable and if DRM recording isn't working on SD by then, I'm left to jump to TiVO or similar.

scyto
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Re: Recording DRM

Post by scyto »

They are not going to set a date or give an indication until they are certain of release date.
That seems quite reasonable to me. I look forward to when it is out, in the mean time I have been rocking the alternatives.

One alternative don’t apply patches to MCE? I only replaced it when my 360 units used as extenders RROD :-(

tghowe
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Location: Arizona

Re: Recording DRM

Post by tghowe »

NedS wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:58 pm
StraightThruTheHeart wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:12 pm It's been 5 years since the Kickstarter and they feel no obligation to be honest with their customers. Appalling.
We have been entirely honest with our customers. The only somewhat-firm ETA we gave on DRM-recording support was that we were aiming for a 2019 release. We are disappointed that we were not able to meet our internal deadline, but no deception was intended in that situation.

Unless you want us to keep repeating ourselves with information that has already been covered, we do not have any new information to share at this time. Yes, we are still working on DRM-recording support. The PRIME6 has been delayed, but we are obligated to completing the DRM support even without the PRIME6 being released before or at the same time.

That is all we can say at this time.
Thank you for this information.

Cass3366
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Joined: Mon May 18, 2020 3:01 pm

Re: Recording DRM

Post by Cass3366 »

Hello,

Can anyone from Silicon Dust please provide an update on when we will have the capability to record DRM with our HomeRun Prime? It would be nice to know what is the status of this, what is the ETA of a product being released. To me, it is a very important capability to have since most of the channels I have access to are DRM. Can you please provide a road-map of this?

Thanks.

rpcameron
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Re: Recording DRM

Post by rpcameron »

Figured I'd give this thread a bump, since the Prime 6 is undergoing additional hardware revisions, and has yet to be submitted to CableLabs for certification.

Any updates about DRM recording? Reports have been conflicting in the past as to whether it was tied to the Prime 6 or not. Also, I seem to remember a comment from a dev about 2+ years ago that they have a working implementation, but it wasn't quite ready.

I figured since SD is getting ready to ship another Kickstarter product, it might be nice if all of the goals from the previous KS were delivered first.

trakz
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Re: Recording DRM

Post by trakz »

Personally, I’d be 100% ok if SilliconDust enabled recording of the encrypted stream. That would allow them at a later time to solve for the HDCP problem. Losing all the drm content goodness is what’s annoying.

jasonl
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Re: Recording DRM

Post by jasonl »

It doesn't work like that. DRM requires that a key exist between the host device (HDHomeRun) and the client so that the client can decrypt the video that has been encrypted by the host device. This is relatively straightforward on live TV since the client talks directly to the host device and can exchange keys, and those keys are temporary and just get discarded when viewing is done. Being able to store for future playback is several orders of magnitude more complex, as you can't just put the keys on a drive where anyone can use them to decrypt the stream. They have to be stored in a way where they are only usable to a trusted client, and that is not an easy task when the storage medium cannot be trusted (e.g. DVR running on a Linux NAS). Usually it's done in hardware, such as Widevine for streaming video, or using a TPM with Bitlocker drive encryption in Windows, but none of that exists on most of the platforms the DVR runs on.

hotshot2k3
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Re: Recording DRM

Post by hotshot2k3 »

This has already existed for years and uses the same technology that is currently used to to playback DRM content on LAN ---> DTCP-IP

https://www.iodata.jp/product/hdd/rokuga/hvl-aas/

This NAS uses DTCP-IP to encrypt and serve up DRM content recorded from TV. (Use google translate)

NedS
Silicondust
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Re: Recording DRM

Post by NedS »

hotshot2k3 wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:08 pm This has already existed for years and uses the same technology that is currently used to to playback DRM content on LAN ---> DTCP-IP

https://www.iodata.jp/product/hdd/rokuga/hvl-aas/

This NAS uses DTCP-IP to encrypt and serve up DRM content recorded from TV. (Use google translate)
Our development team is working on a solution that should work on all platforms currently supported for DVR, and not be limited to special hardware. That's the goal, at least.

GhostPeter
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 12:10 pm

Re: Recording DRM

Post by GhostPeter »

It's been over 5 years, I think we're owed an explanation about *exactly* where the deliverable stands and if it's actually possible to do.

I said years ago it would not be possible unless done via hardware. To not accomplish it on a single platform, yet state that you're attempting a solution for all platforms is lunacy at this stage.

trakz
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Re: Recording DRM

Post by trakz »

I think we're owed an explanation
Fine for you to think that, completely different thing if anyone else agrees.
it would not be possible unless done via hardware
I for one am happy that SilliconDust believes it can be done exclusively in software and doesn't require a hardware-based solution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_T ... Protection
you're attempting a solution for all platforms is lunacy
Crypto is hard. If you think Cablelabs certification is a tough nut to crack, try HDCP certification on top of that! To suggest that something is "lunacy" clearly highlights that "if it were easy, someone else would've already done it"...

Your tone suggests frustration (my apologies in advance If I'm misunderstanding), but if recording DRM is that important to you, source an alternate solution that can meet your near term goals?

NedS
Silicondust
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Re: Recording DRM

Post by NedS »

GhostPeter wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:24 pm It's been over 5 years, I think we're owed an explanation about *exactly* where the deliverable stands and if it's actually possible to do.

I said years ago it would not be possible unless done via hardware. To not accomplish it on a single platform, yet state that you're attempting a solution for all platforms is lunacy at this stage.
Proof of concept was already done on this earlier this year.

GhostPeter
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 12:10 pm

Re: Recording DRM

Post by GhostPeter »

NedS wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:32 pm Proof of concept was already done on this earlier this year.
5 years in and just now you have a proof of concept?

This is laughable. Be honest with your paying customers.

GhostPeter
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2020 12:10 pm

Re: Recording DRM

Post by GhostPeter »

trakz wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:02 pm Your tone suggests frustration (my apologies in advance If I'm misunderstanding), but if recording DRM is that important to you, source an alternate solution that can meet your near term goals?
Why should I have to? This was promised 5 YEARS AGO. If they had been forthcoming with the actual status that would be one thing, but they've been purposely vague and have indicated delivery was just around the corner many, many times.

How many years are they allowed to string people along in your book.... 10? 15? 20?

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djp952
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Re: Recording DRM

Post by djp952 »

To be fair, there is no way to know if SD is creating a proprietary solution that may need to be patented or otherwise be protected from competitors, that alone would be a good reason to be mum about things. There could be non-disclosure agreements that need to be adhered to, there are all sorts of reasons that a company may not be able to divulge information to the public over an extended period of time.

These guys are generally very upfront and open with people, and I have personal experience with just how much they honestly want to deliver for their customers. They embrace and support (software) solutions outside of their ecosystem, which is VERY RARE. They've also honored their promise to the how many thousands of users that joined the kickstarter, in that we are all still getting free DVR service because they haven't delivered DRM recording yet? This is costing them money, perhaps a significant amount, and has been for years, yet they are still honoring it. That's pretty darn above-board for a 21st century tech company, especially one with very little competition in their main 'space'.

It won't make you any less frustrated, or get you any closer to the solution you're looking for, but I'm certain that if something could be shared it would be. Being upset about it won't change anything, or make it go any faster :mrgreen:

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