Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

A place for people to discuss future hardware and software product news
gtb
Expert
Posts: 3906
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:00 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, CA USA

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by gtb » Thu May 09, 2019 5:23 pm

jasonl wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 1:38 pm
I agree, it shouldn't be this difficult to work with Amazon.
What, are you new here? :roll:

We all know Amazon primarily cares about how things can make them money (they are laser focused on the money), and I don't see how making a competing product more functional when they have their own offering in that space is a clear win for them, and I'll guess neither do they. They are not the first (nor will they be the last) that take advantage of their power to constrain competitors.

gtb
Expert
Posts: 3906
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:00 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, CA USA

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by gtb » Thu May 09, 2019 5:25 pm

john7259 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:51 pm
Having settled on Amazon for my viewing devices
So, in the phrasing of the knight, you chose ..... poorly. Of course, I know people who bought a Zune, too.

john7259
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:40 pm

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by john7259 » Thu May 09, 2019 5:39 pm

gtb wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:25 pm
john7259 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:51 pm
Having settled on Amazon for my viewing devices
So, in the phrasing of the knight, you chose ..... poorly. Of course, I know people who bought a Zune, too.
I don't think so....it does everything I need well except fully integrate with SD products.....luckily there is now an alternative to fix that for OTA.
I've written off any DRM support as a long term solution on any product, except for keeping windows 7/8 WMC going as long as I can.

rrussis82
Posts: 433
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:46 pm
Location: Western MA

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by rrussis82 » Thu May 09, 2019 5:41 pm

Maybe, just maybe, if enough Amazon customers contact them to request they push it through and threaten them to move off the Amazon ecosystem if they don't, you know much like you guys do to SD... AndroidTV is improving and I believe if Google plays it right it has the potential to beat out FireTV. Don't get me wrong, I love my FireTV, but I also don't put all my eggs in one basket.

rrussis82
Posts: 433
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:46 pm
Location: Western MA

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by rrussis82 » Thu May 09, 2019 6:04 pm

john7259 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:39 pm
gtb wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:25 pm
john7259 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 4:51 pm
Having settled on Amazon for my viewing devices
So, in the phrasing of the knight, you chose ..... poorly. Of course, I know people who bought a Zune, too.
I don't think so....it does everything I need well except fully integrate with SD products.....luckily there is now an alternative to fix that for OTA.
I've written off any DRM support as a long term solution on any product, except for keeping windows 7/8 WMC going as long as I can.
Why would you sink to the level of buying a product that is inferior? and doesn't support cable card, you keep mentioning DRM

john7259
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:40 pm

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by john7259 » Thu May 09, 2019 6:32 pm

Sorry, but for me if it comes down to a choice between SD and FireTV, FireTV wins. Also, I don't believe the SD user base has enough clout to get Amazon's attention.

A bit off-topic, but I also believe that the long term SD business model is going to have problems unless they develop official 'partnerships' with the makers of the endpoint delivery mechanism (or develop their own). Without that, they are constantly exposed to breakage as the endpoints change. Just look at the state of DRM support today.

As far as AndroidTV, I also picked up a Nexus Player during one of the eBay closeouts. Works OK, but support is dead and I'm not aware of any follow on products, so that's a dead end. You have any new info/sources?

john7259
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:40 pm

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by john7259 » Thu May 09, 2019 6:34 pm

rrussis82 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:04 pm
john7259 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:39 pm
gtb wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:25 pm

So, in the phrasing of the knight, you chose ..... poorly. Of course, I know people who bought a Zune, too.
I don't think so....it does everything I need well except fully integrate with SD products.....luckily there is now an alternative to fix that for OTA.
I've written off any DRM support as a long term solution on any product, except for keeping windows 7/8 WMC going as long as I can.
Why would you sink to the level of buying a product that is inferior? and doesn't support cable card, you keep mentioning DRM
FireTV used to support DRM with the 'Green' app available from Amazon. SD yanked that support without any warning. Was just trying to hedge my bets as I was looking at cord cutting alternatives.

I still haven't cut the cord....haven't found anything to match WMC. (WMC is still my home theater solution. FireTV in other rooms) Integrating OTA info with streaming info in the same app is an absolute requirement for me.
Last edited by john7259 on Thu May 09, 2019 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rrussis82
Posts: 433
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:46 pm
Location: Western MA

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by rrussis82 » Thu May 09, 2019 6:39 pm

john7259 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:32 pm
Sorry, but for me if it comes down to a choice between SD and FireTV, FireTV wins. Also, I don't believe the SD user base has enough clout to get Amazon's attention.

A bit off-topic, but I also believe that the long term SD business model is going to have problems unless they develop official 'partnerships' with the makers of the endpoint delivery mechanism (or develop their own). Without that, they are constantly exposed to breakage as the endpoints change. Just look at the state of DRM support today.

As far as AndroidTV, I also picked up a Nexus Player during one of the eBay closeouts. Works OK, but support is dead and I'm not aware of any follow on products, so that's a dead end. You have any new info/sources?
Nexus is old and dead. Check out Mi box, Jetstream, Nvidia Shield, Sony TVs, or any of the other product partners just announced at Google IO. AndroidTV is not dead and is growing.

gtb
Expert
Posts: 3906
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:00 pm
Location: Sunnyvale, CA USA

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by gtb » Thu May 09, 2019 6:44 pm

rrussis82 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:41 pm
Maybe, just maybe, if enough Amazon customers contact them ....
You should understand your lack of power against the megacorp. Amazon does not care about idle threats (and most such threats are idle, and everyone knows that). You need actual cancellations with this being the one and only one reason. Expect the numbers of individuals to matter to Amazon to be well into six figures(*). Do you have that many friends willing to permanently terminate all association with Amazon?


(*) On the other hand, if you control your businesses cloud buying decision, informing Amazon you will be moving your billion dollar services contract to Azure or Google Cloud next year because they refuse to whitelist your personal favorite apps, that might make an impression (even if it is a completely different part of the business).

john7259
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:40 pm

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by john7259 » Thu May 09, 2019 7:00 pm

gtb wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:44 pm
(*) On the other hand, if you control your businesses cloud buying decision, informing Amazon you will be moving your billion dollar services contract to Azure or Google Cloud next year because they refuse to whitelist your personal favorite apps, that might make an impression (even if it is a completely different part of the business).
And of course, be ready to look for a new job when your boss finds out that's why you want to change :)

nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 15424
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by nickk » Thu May 09, 2019 10:25 pm

john7259 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:32 pm
Just look at the state of DRM support today.
We support protected content on Windows 10, XBox One, Android, Android TV, iPhone, and iPad.

FireTV products don't meet protection requirements and cannot be used to view CableCARD derived protected content.

Nick

john7259
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:40 pm

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by john7259 » Thu May 09, 2019 11:22 pm

nickk wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 10:25 pm
john7259 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 6:32 pm
Just look at the state of DRM support today.
We support protected content on Windows 10, XBox One, Android, Android TV, iPhone, and iPad.

FireTV products don't meet protection requirements and cannot be used to view CableCARD derived protected content.

Nick
My last post here....don't try and re-write history. FireTV had supported DRM using the HDHomerun app I purchased through the Amazon store. Even showed up as a purchased cloud app. One of the reasons I invested in FireTV. Then a forced update took it away without warning.

NedS
Silicondust
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by NedS » Fri May 10, 2019 3:58 am

SiliconDust has to follow the various cableCARD rules in how the app handles DRM-restricted channels. According to those rules, we can't make those DRM channels accessible unless it's done in a certain way. It's not a matter if it's physically possible, it's a matter of if the Fire TV platform complies with the rules.

nateb
Silicondust
Posts: 809
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:22 pm
Device ID: 1051C73D, 10759F29

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by nateb » Fri May 10, 2019 7:36 am

john7259 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 11:22 pm

My last post here....don't try and re-write history. FireTV had supported DRM using the HDHomerun app I purchased through the Amazon store. Even showed up as a purchased cloud app. One of the reasons I invested in FireTV. Then a forced update took it away without warning.
Ned is absolutely correct. It's intensely frustrating that Amazon isn't compliant now, because so many people have FTV sticks. It would be awesome to be able to let all those customers watch protected content. But as long as Amazon isn't compliant, then our hands are tied.

reggie14
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:17 pm

Re: Add HDHomerun to FireTV Live TV Sources

Post by reggie14 » Fri May 10, 2019 8:31 am

nateb wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:36 am
john7259 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 11:22 pm

My last post here....don't try and re-write history. FireTV had supported DRM using the HDHomerun app I purchased through the Amazon store. Even showed up as a purchased cloud app. One of the reasons I invested in FireTV. Then a forced update took it away without warning.
Ned is absolutely correct. It's intensely frustrating that Amazon isn't compliant now, because so many people have FTV sticks. It would be awesome to be able to let all those customers watch protected content. But as long as Amazon isn't compliant, then our hands are tied.
Out of curiosity, what do you mean by this? My understanding of the CableLabs/OCUR requirements is that they basically come down to "use a CableLabs-approved DRM system" once you're outside the OCUR device.

While it's probably a bit simplified, the main requirement on FireTV and other devices is to support an approved DRM system, and make whatever interfaces are necessary to use it available to application developers. Right? Or is there some other critical detail that I'm missing?

I think the issue is that FireTV devices don't seem to support DTCP-IP, which appears to be the one and only DRM system you are supporting with your apps. They do support other DRM systems- PlayReady and Widevine. Though, I see FireTV only supports PlayReady on the video stream, not the audio stream, so that presumably means you wouldn't be able to use PlayReady.

Post Reply