Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

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Sammy2
Posts: 595
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:49 am

Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by Sammy2 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:00 pm

jasonl wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:32 am
HDHomeRun hardware is fully-functional without an internet connection. You will not get guide data from us or be able to access the device via my.hdhomerun.com if it does not have an internet connection.
But I can still just type in its local ip address.

rpcameron
Posts: 827
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:55 am

Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by rpcameron » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:09 pm

Sammy2 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:30 am
If I use Emby, can I block the Quatro Primes from internet access in my router and get guide data from Emby?
Yes, you absolutely can. Back when the Prime had the GbE DHCP bug I connected my tuners to a switch connected to an extra ethernet port on my DVR machine, setting that port to a static IP in 169.254/16. As long as your software can see the tuner, that's all that matters.

waterfly
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:33 am

Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by waterfly » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:49 pm

NedS wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:23 pm
Downloading programming guide data isn't really the same thing as "phoning home". There's a reason support people still need users to turn on logging (which turns itself back off after ten days) when troubleshooting.
It could be SD does not even understand what their own product is doing or why it's such a terrible idea.

When you visit a website and without logging on or anything it volunteers information about what's installed on your internal network this is a pretty obvious clue something massively messed up is occurring.

Sad part when I tried to block the API hosts in DNS to protect myself from this insanity HDHR decided it would bypass my DNS server and instead query Google's public DNS instead. LOL so I had to block that as well.

SD is sending unique device identifiers in the clear over the Internet and providing the means for any malicious website owner any poor shmuck on your network decides to visit to discover the existence and location of your HDHRs then send commands to themthanks in no small part to wildcard CORS headers conveniently belched out by HDHR discovery URLs.

Do the world a favor and provide a simple checkbox to turn it ALL off.

JeffRand
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:30 am
Device ID: 131C369D, 1321FB16

Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by JeffRand » Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:44 pm

waterfly wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:49 pm
SD is sending unique device identifiers in the clear over the Internet and providing the means for any malicious website owner any poor shmuck on your network decides to visit to discover the existence and location of your HDHRs then send commands to themthanks in no small part to wildcard CORS headers conveniently belched out by HDHR discovery URLs.
My HDHR's are inside my network behind the firewall. There is no listener open on the firewall, so any connections to the HDHR will only originate with the HDHR itself. So, I'm not concerned with someone sending commands to them, besides even if they could do as you say, I'm sure no one is interested in controlling my HDHR's.

NedS
Silicondust
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by NedS » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:41 am

waterfly wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:49 pm
NedS wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:23 pm
Downloading programming guide data isn't really the same thing as "phoning home". There's a reason support people still need users to turn on logging (which turns itself back off after ten days) when troubleshooting.
It could be SD does not even understand what their own product is doing or why it's such a terrible idea.

When you visit a website and without logging on or anything it volunteers information about what's installed on your internal network this is a pretty obvious clue something massively messed up is occurring.

Sad part when I tried to block the API hosts in DNS to protect myself from this insanity HDHR decided it would bypass my DNS server and instead query Google's public DNS instead. LOL so I had to block that as well.

SD is sending unique device identifiers in the clear over the Internet and providing the means for any malicious website owner any poor shmuck on your network decides to visit to discover the existence and location of your HDHRs then send commands to themthanks in no small part to wildcard CORS headers conveniently belched out by HDHR discovery URLs.

Do the world a favor and provide a simple checkbox to turn it ALL off.
I don't think we're on the same page. I'm talking about the HDHR initiating a connection to another device over the internet, for the purposes of obtaining guide data. You seem to be upset that the HDHR can provide a device ID and basic control over the *local* network.

nickk
Silicondust
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by nickk » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:17 am

waterfly - the CORS header shouldn't be wildcard... investigating...

Kendog52361
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:50 pm

Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by Kendog52361 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:04 am

OTA ATSC 3.0 Testing in Phoenix is expanding.

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/next-ge ... n-phoenix/

rrussis82
Posts: 465
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Location: Western MA

Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by rrussis82 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:01 pm

will there be some sort of adaptor for ATSC 3.0 that our current hardware will be able to connect to so our tuners can pick up ATSC 3.0?

waterfly
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:33 am

Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by waterfly » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:03 pm

JeffRand wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:44 pm
My HDHR's are inside my network behind the firewall. There is no listener open on the firewall, so any connections to the HDHR will only originate with the HDHR itself. So, I'm not concerned with someone sending commands to them, besides even if they could do as you say, I'm sure no one is interested in controlling my HDHR's.
Problems are often overlooked and or misunderstood. The risk is you visit a website and it turns around and instructs your own browser located in your internal network behind your firewall to report back what people are watching on TV in your own home. It can also use data to get location or track you via device id. There may be additional risks - messing with channel scan, attempting to exploit coding errors.

In the past there have been similar issues with CEs that have been exploited. Often problems can be resolved without taking away functionality with simple changes. For example CSRF protecting URLs within UI which do things or change things and removing overly permissive CORS policy can go a long way to mitigating potential for problems.

NedS: HDHR is transmitting device identifiers and channel lists over the Internet unprompted by anything all by itself. It can sit there with nothing at all accessing it and it will still send data. It's not downloading guide data.

NedS
Silicondust
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by NedS » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:19 am

waterfly wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:03 pm
NedS: HDHR is transmitting device identifiers and channel lists over the Internet unprompted by anything all by itself. It can sit there with nothing at all accessing it and it will still send data. It's not downloading guide data.
The only communication happening over the internet is when the HDHR only communicates with SiliconDust servers. If you don't trust SiliconDust servers, that's fine, block them on your firewall. You won't get guide data but the OTA tuners will keep working.

JeffRand
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Device ID: 131C369D, 1321FB16

Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by JeffRand » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:21 am

waterfly wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:03 pm
JeffRand wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:44 pm
My HDHR's are inside my network behind the firewall. There is no listener open on the firewall, so any connections to the HDHR will only originate with the HDHR itself. So, I'm not concerned with someone sending commands to them, besides even if they could do as you say, I'm sure no one is interested in controlling my HDHR's.
The risk is you visit a website and it turns around and instructs your own browser located in your internal network behind your firewall to report back what people are watching on TV in your own home. It can also use data to get location or track you via device id. There may be additional risks - messing with channel scan, attempting to exploit coding errors.
I do not care one bit if someone knows what I'm watching. Geez. And I have had HDHR's for years. I am not concerned that someone would even have any interest in messing with my channel scan or anything else for that matter. :lol:

waterfly
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:33 am

Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by waterfly » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:50 pm

nickk wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:17 am
waterfly - the CORS header shouldn't be wildcard... investigating...
Thank you.

ebo
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by ebo » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:46 pm

I'm sure that when ATSC 3.0 starts to become popular, SD will offer an HDHR that can work with it. From what little I've read about the chip Sinclair is promoting, apparently it works as a Software Defined Radio that can be reprogrammed to receive not only ATSC 3.0 but all or most of the other digital TV modulations currently in use worldwide. I hope SD will consider using that, since they could combine all of their current OTA models into one that would work anywhere with the proper software. And if the cost were similar to the current models or even a little more, they could start selling them anytime without having to wait for ATSC 3.0 to gain a foothold.

Kendog52361
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Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by Kendog52361 » Sat May 25, 2019 4:55 pm

So, the FCC is apparently starting to accept applications from TV Stations next week. This is for those TV Stations who are wanting to offer ATSC 3.0, however even after they switch over, the TV Stations will be required to continue to offer ATSC 1.0 for 5 years, to provide legacy support.

https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/the-fcc ... next-week/

gtb
Expert
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Location: Sunnyvale, CA USA

Re: Sinclair Planning to Rollout ATSC 3.0 this year

Post by gtb » Sat May 25, 2019 8:52 pm

Kendog52361 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 4:55 pm
So, the FCC is apparently starting to accept applications from TV Stations next week. This is for those TV Stations who are wanting to offer ATSC 3.0, however even after they switch over, the TV Stations will be required to continue to offer ATSC 1.0 for 5 years, to provide legacy support.
The FCC has been in process on this for a long time (nothing happens quickly at the FCC). And while correct in overview, what is missing is the details (and an advantage Sinclair has in a few (smaller) markets). Since there are no "spare" channels available for the transition, what has to happen is that two (or more) existing ATSC 1.0 stations will need to work together to move all their broadcasts onto one transmitter (taking advantage of the ATSC virtual channel numbers to keep the numbers the same to the community), and migrate the other transmitter(s) to ATSC 3.0 where they will also share for (at least) five years. Since you can't fit ten gallons of crap into a five gallon bag, the bitrate (and therefore, the perceived quality) is likely going to have to go down for each shared ATSC 1.0 channel being broadcast (which may result in some interesting rumblings and ranting from some individuals as their favorite shows start to look more like SD quality unless they are willing to replace their TV (or get some sort of converter box)). Sinclair, in a few markets (the ones they have announced) have beneficial ownership of more than one transmitter, making the "working together" part fairly easy. In many other markets station owners that have historically been strong competitors will need to work together. Even when such are in their interests, some compromises will be needed (as coverage will likely be somewhat different), and in a lot of those markets the station owners have been prioritizing the required spectrum repack rather than the transition (although in almost all cases they have their eye on the eventual ATSC 3.0 goal, and especially during any required transmitter replacements the broadcasters have tended to specify equipment that will serve them for ATSC 3.0 transmission in the future (with minor updates)).

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