not soon???

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PhantomEight
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:49 pm

Re: not soon???

Postby PhantomEight » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:46 pm

Why did they tie the two together? We'll likely never be told (which isn't unusual for any tech company), and the reasons may or may not be easily identified once they do deliver the product.
I would say because there is no point in having a serious CableCARD solution without functional DRM. Why buy the thing otherwise? So I could not watch stuff that I want to watch like sports or other copy protected content? There is a solution out there that already works, it's called Windows Media Center and no one has come close to besting it yet. It's SAD and I want Silicon Dust to put the final nail in Windows Media Center's coffin... when they do I will be jumping up and down, screaming at them to just take my money. But for now, just because WMC is old and unsupported doesn't mean it doesn't still work well, especially when you replace the guide data with EPG123. For the time being, WMC/Ceton/EPG123 have the Wife and Kids Approval Factor, Silicon Dust does not, not until they can decide to crap or get off the pot with DRM support in their clients and recording engine. While I don't like waiting, I would rather see both items taken care in one fell swoop because I think they would have more dissatisfied customers if they dropped the Prime 6 first and DRM later.

Nate, please familiarize yourself with the DRM/CableCARD side of Silicon Dust when you are able, it is very important to us and I think the folks at Silcon Dust will be surprised at inrush of customers when they can finally match what Windows Media Center has to offer... don't let the company get stuck in the "Cut the Cord" echo chamber.... some of us have zero desire for streaming providers outside of Netflix and Amazon (but only because it's bundled with Prime, otherwise... meh...).

gtb
Expert
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Location: Sunnyvale, CA USA

Re: not soon???

Postby gtb » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:30 am

Why did they tie the two together? We'll likely never be told (which isn't unusual for any tech company), and the reasons may or may not be easily identified once they do deliver the product.
Why buy the thing otherwise?
In some markets, with some MSOs, the (rental) price for CableCARDs approaches $10/mo, and not all MSOs choose to require a protected content path, so much content can be accessed even without a protected content path solution. So the potential cost savings could be real (payback in ~18 months, depending on pricing). That is why some want a 6-tuner device now even without a full protected path solution. You might want to learn about the other markets (you might even want to move to them to have more options).

My personal WAG for tying the two together has always been that the original expected approvals for the device and the protection requirements were all part of the same approval stream (SD did state that their protected content path approach had been approved in principal. Details, of course, mattered), combined that from a marketing perspective a single big announcement was extremely important (you only get one chance to make a big splash announcement each year). And something went sideways along the approval process. In my WAG, the likely reasons tend to revolve around the secure crypto key storage/exchange (that tends to be the harder part of the crypto processes), and that the new device included the new protocols/processes in the firmware, which have not passed the process (no approval, no ship, and no authorization to backport the changes to the 3-tuner firmware to support it there). But as others have said, we likely will never know for sure unless SD writes a blog detailing their multi-year efforts to ship this product (a "Dr. CableCARD, or how we learned stop worrying and to love CableLabs" story?).

DroidTV
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:34 pm

Re: not soon???

Postby DroidTV » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:16 am

I do not foresee SD putting the nail in the coffin of WMC anytime soon. This is not a knock on SD’s effort, but there are a several things that Win7 WMC does much better, especially when it’s running on modern hardware. I hope this isn’t redacted by SD but, I have noticed that the channel change speed between drm and non drm channels to be much faster in Win7 WMC than in the Win10 view app and Android app(wmdrm vs dtcp-ip)?. The image quality appears much better in Win7 WMC than ANY other app(MS directshow filters at work?). The ergonomics of the DVR in WMC have yet to be challenged by any competing platform, where with the correct setup only a simple 1039 remote and Inteset receiver are needed for complete system control without the need of a keyboard. The grid guide in WMC is also unmatched for the WAF and simplicity of scheduling future recording days or weeks in advance. WMC also has simple, direct channel number input without having a cluttered guide popping out(SD Kodi addon does this and Android Live Channels).
This is not a comprehensive list, but just a few of the things that show that even with a SD drm solution, WMC will still be the more user intuitive dvr solution. I am hopefully optimistic that one day we will get a suitable and feature for feature better alternative to WMC, but until then I have no plans of switching. My hope is that the six tuner prime is here sooner than later because we all have a viable, willing and ready drm solution available to us and can be benefiting from the added tuners.

suttonb1
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:25 am

Re: not soon???

Postby suttonb1 » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:13 am

I am hopefully optimistic that one day we will get a suitable and feature for feature better alternative to WMC, but until then I have no plans of switching. My hope is that the six tuner prime is here sooner than later because we all have a viable, willing and ready drm solution available to us and can be benefiting from the added tuners.
This^^^^^^^^^^

I have no interest in any software that can not live up to the now ancient WMC. Do I want more tuners? YES, please take my money!

danp
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:56 am

Re: not soon???

Postby danp » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:27 pm

Will Prime 6 work with WMC on Win 8.1??

nickk
Silicondust
Posts: 15187
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:39 am

Re: not soon???

Postby nickk » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:24 pm

Will Prime 6 work with WMC on Win 8.1??
Yes

uconnctfan33
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:55 am
Device ID: 1322E4EF

Re: not soon???

Postby uconnctfan33 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:54 pm

Will Prime 6 work with WMC on Win 8.1??
Yes
Hey Nickk,
Is the Prime 6 in production yet? Any Updates?

scyto
Posts: 112
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 2:42 pm

Re: not soon???

Postby scyto » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:40 pm

@phantomEigyt have to agree with you, WMC was awesome. I had to leave it behind due to extenders becoming doa. My wife misses WMC but we have been happy with the **** Bolt that replaced it, with **** minis. And heck **** even gave me another bolt to be a beta tester and influence direction. I check in here once in a while hoping beyond hope for DRM recording....

RockandRoller70
Posts: 987
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:43 am
Device ID: 1311127E / 1322D7A7

Re: not soon???

Postby RockandRoller70 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:14 pm

I check in here once in a while hoping beyond hope for DRM recording....
[removed by moderator - see forum rules]

PhantomEight
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:49 pm

Re: not soon???

Postby PhantomEight » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:07 pm

@phantomEigyt have to agree with you, WMC was awesome. I had to leave it behind due to extenders becoming doa. My wife misses WMC but we have been happy with the **** Bolt that replaced it, with **** minis. And heck **** even gave me another bolt to be a beta tester and influence direction. I check in here once in a while hoping beyond hope for DRM recording....
I still use Xbox 360 Slim 4G models as extenders with Windows 7... That setup is pricey but the best option as you also have functional and up to date Netflix and Amazon streaming clients (for the time being) that you can switch to from WMC easily. We set the Xbox 360 to boot to WMC first and then we have the media remotes and just switch to Xbox Home to select the Netflix or Amazon apps. We have one in each bedroom and once we decided to mount our Livingroom TV on the wall I rack mounted our WMC PC in a 2U server case in the basement and I picked another Xbox 360 4G Slim, this time used from Game Stop for under $100... straight up didn't care and I've had luck with it in terms of reliability. To add we were using the Emby WMC client and but we also have FireTV sticks in each TV... It's just too bad that after all these years I am not running SD's DVR software on the FireTV with the Prime 6 cable card box right now....

Why did they tie the two together? We'll likely never be told (which isn't unusual for any tech company), and the reasons may or may not be easily identified once they do deliver the product.
Why buy the thing otherwise?
In some markets, with some MSOs, the (rental) price for CableCARDs approaches $10/mo, and not all MSOs choose to require a protected content path, so much content can be accessed even without a protected content path solution. So the potential cost savings could be real (payback in ~18 months, depending on pricing). That is why some want a 6-tuner device now even without a full protected path solution. You might want to learn about the other markets (you might even want to move to them to have more options).
I have thought about that, my local cable operator is a regional company serving the tri-county area only, not something huge like Comcast, Spectrum, ect.. Based on my previous dealings with them, I would be willing to bet that things like Copy Once/Copy Never flags aren't properly enforced. But I haven't been willing to test that theory and with the purchase of equipment that would potentially not work. Also, I think I might be a little dense, I haven't been able to figure out if something is DRM'ed in WMC or the Ceton diagnostic tools. If you have a pointer please let me know.

JeffRand
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:30 am
Device ID: 131C369D, 1321FB16

Re: not soon???

Postby JeffRand » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:56 am

I still use Xbox 360 Slim 4G models as extenders with Windows 7... That setup is pricey but the best option as you also have functional and up to date Netflix and Amazon streaming clients (for the time being) that you can switch to from WMC easily. We set the Xbox 360 to boot to WMC first and then we have the media remotes and just switch to Xbox Home to select the Netflix or Amazon apps. We have one in each bedroom and once we decided to mount our Livingroom TV on the wall I rack mounted our WMC PC in a 2U server case in the basement and I picked another Xbox 360 4G Slim, this time used from Game Stop for under $100... straight up didn't care and I've had luck with it in terms of reliability. To add we were using the Emby WMC client and but we also have FireTV sticks in each TV... It's just too bad that after all these years I am not running SD's DVR software on the FireTV with the Prime 6 cable card box right now....
I agree completely. I have about the same setup as you. I have a Windows 8.1 WMC PC in my basement and use five Xbox 360's throughout the house to provide viewing. In my opinion, this is by far the best option available right now. I too have been patiently waiting (well.. almost) for SD to make their DVR software somewhere close to the functionality of WMC. I really hope it happens.


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