6 tuner prime soon !!!

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AWill456931
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by AWill456931 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:20 pm

Website updated to now say "Coming 2019" guess we are back to where we were precisely a year ago.

Loosing hope for this to be honest.

signcarver
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by signcarver » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:05 pm

Why... now they fairly committed to 2019, while before it was Coming Soon which can be years from now (I have seen soon mean up to 1000's of years).

rrussis82
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by rrussis82 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:52 pm

Nickk, Nateb, Jasonl, or Ned,
Can you at least tell us the stages you must complete on the Prime 6? I can only assume the stages are submitting the prototype to cablelabs, wait for their approval, then send out a production work order, receive the order, check quality control, and then make available to the public.. are there any other stages that need to happen? and can you tell us currently what stage we are in. This is different than a timeline as all these stages can take considerable time.

nateb
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by nateb » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:19 am

I think the big one you are missing is working out software issues. That means handling DRM correctly, resolving stream errors, etc. That's the one that makes it so difficult to give a precise date. For example, we (aka people smarter than me) just dealt with an interesting issue where certain streams had artificially limited bandwidth. This means if a user tried to play two streams with this issue, it'd choke out the rest of the 6 tuners. That's why I said either here or on some other thread that we do have an idea when we'd like to release it, but aren't willing to commit to that date. With software, you never know when you're going to find a bug that causes big delays. If all of the currently identified issues are the only issues (plus a bit of wiggle room), we'll be able to release in that window. If new issues crop up, it'll bump back.

The rest of the stages you listed are all pretty well known quantities at this point and likely won't present many surprises. (Knock on wood.)

rrussis82
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by rrussis82 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:37 am

nateb wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:19 am
I think the big one you are missing is working out software issues. That means handling DRM correctly, resolving stream errors, etc. That's the one that makes it so difficult to give a precise date. For example, we (aka people smarter than me) just dealt with an interesting issue where certain streams had artificially limited bandwidth. This means if a user tried to play two streams with this issue, it'd choke out the rest of the 6 tuners. That's why I said either here or on some other thread that we do have an idea when we'd like to release it, but aren't willing to commit to that date. With software, you never know when you're going to find a bug that causes big delays. If all of the currently identified issues are the only issues (plus a bit of wiggle room), we'll be able to release in that window. If new issues crop up, it'll bump back.

The rest of the stages you listed are all pretty well known quantities at this point and likely won't present many surprises. (Knock on wood.)
Thanks Nate!

Is there any possibility if the software to allow DRM recording is not ready when everything else is, that Prime could be released without it so those of use without DRM issues can get access to it, Then when the DRM software end is ready, update the firmware and let the next wave of buyers start purchasing for the DRM ability?

Kendog52361
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by Kendog52361 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:54 am

rrussis82 wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:37 am
nateb wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:19 am
Thanks Nate!

Is there any possibility if the software to allow DRM recording is not ready when everything else is, that Prime could be released without it so those of use without DRM issues can get access to it, Then when the DRM software end is ready, update the firmware and let the next wave of buyers start purchasing for the DRM ability?
To clarify, are you talking about releasing the Prime 6 without the ability to watch DRM content, or are you talking about the DVR, itself, being able to record DRM content? Assuming you're talking about only the ability to record DRM content on the DVR, and not the ability to watch DRM content with the Prime 6, then I would agree with you, about not tying the release of the Prime 6 tuner to the ability of the DVR to record, not to simply watch but record, DRM content.

signcarver
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by signcarver » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:17 pm

How the question seemed to have been asked, and putting such in two groups, would not be possible as the device (firmware) would need to be complete if it supports cablecard at all (part of the certification testing). The firmware has nothing to do with the possibility of recording DRM protected content and has to be complete with DRM support if it is to support CableCARD.

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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by nateb » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:23 pm

signcarver wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:17 pm
How the question seemed to have been asked, and putting such in two groups, would not be possible as the device (firmware) would need to be complete if it supports cablecard at all (part of the certification testing). The firmware has nothing to do with the possibility of recording DRM protected content and has to be complete with DRM support if it is to support CableCARD.
Exactly.

jeffddntdt
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by jeffddntdt » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:07 pm

Thanks Nateb for the update. Now we know it's not a mirage, and know how things are progressing.

clemon79
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by clemon79 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:03 am

I remember when this was the 4-tuner Prime....something like four years ago.

I'll believe it when I see it. I expect an 8-tuner version "real soon now!" to be announced next year.

rpcameron
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by rpcameron » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:17 am

clemon79 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:03 am
I remember when this was the 4-tuner Prime....something like four years ago.

I'll believe it when I see it. I expect an 8-tuner version "real soon now!" to be announced next year.
There was the 4 tuner Expand, which was basically a Prime for DVB-C. The fourth tuner was because it didn't need the OOB tuner for CableCARD, so it was repurposed to be a regular tuner. Since the Prime is EOL and parts for it are no longer manufactured, I imagine the Expand falls into the same category. Further, the furore over the Prime 6's delay is greater than the disappearing Expand is that there are many DVB-C options, and minimal CableCARD options. (That's assuming the Expand has the same fate as the Prime 3.)

signcarver
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by signcarver » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:44 am

The products page (and shop, though out of stock) has 5th gen expands...

What was being discussed was prior/at the same time the connect/extend was to come out, there were supposed to be 2 new 4 tuner cablecard devices one with transcoding and one without... if that ever came out, we most likely would still have parts for another year or two but a few things happened... speculation was the "company that should not be named" bought "all" the available tuning chips for their 6 tuner product, the chip manufacturer also got bought out twice which made finding the chips even harder (though I'm sure SD had some purchasers that has better access than others just trying to obtain info on the chips). Though it may have been in a similar state as the current prime 6 was about a year ago. Then all of a sudden ceton released their 6 tuner product and it seemed pointless to release a 4 tuner product when the competition for WMC already had both 4 and 6 tuner products. At first they scrapped the transcoding unit as providers were already beginning the switch, then they quietly scrapped the other by showing off a board for a potential 6 tuner 2 or 3 years ago, and essentially announced the prime over a year ago.

go45cvi
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by go45cvi » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:08 am

With Microsoft killing off wmc and ceton out of the picture there was no reason to develop a six tuner unit. Just keep selling the threes until cablecards eol. Better to spend the resources trying to develop a dvr application and now a streaming service.

gtb
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by gtb » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:15 am

clemon79 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:03 am
I remember when this was the 4-tuner Prime....something like four years ago.
A transcoding model I believe. There were a couple of rumors as to why it disappeared, but you are correct....
I'll believe it when I see it
A good plan for any device. No one should buy (or not buy) on promises of future capabilities or rumors (unless you are the type of person who has put down the deposit for AirPower and are still waiting). "Show me the beef". It is nice to know what is in the pipeline, but you buy today what is available today when you need it today. And replace it tomorrow if the ROI is positive to do so.
I expect an 8-tuner version "real soon now!" to be announced next year.
Only SA/Cisco had an formal 8 stream capable CableCARD (PKM908?), and only when paired with a few specific STBs (I never looked at the specs when they were public, so I don't know if they were a "beyond spec" >200Mb/s capable device, or just took advantage of the usual encoding uses that would keep the bitrate within the specs (technically 6 full bitrate 38Mb/s streams would exceed the 200Mb/s number too, but no real company sends single full bitrate programs (the 3D stunts might have been an exception)).

GetMatt
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Re: 6 tuner prime soon !!!

Post by GetMatt » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:36 pm

go45cvi wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:08 am
With Microsoft killing off wmc and ceton out of the picture there was no reason to develop a six tuner unit. Just keep selling the threes until cablecards eol. Better to spend the resources trying to develop a dvr application and now a streaming service.
They can't buy the parts to keep making the 3-tuner so they have to make a new model. Might as well make it 6 tuners.

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